structural engineer charles pegelow

Those are just the team leaders, so tell me again why I should believe Pegalow and Jones over these people?

TAM:)
[ct]
They're all gov't shills who were told what the results should be!
[/ct]
 
I concur Gravy, the response is not important, understanding the posts is. If he did, he may respond 'oh wow I was so wrong' but of alas, thats about as likely as seeing John Bonham tour with Wolfmother.

I actually feel embarressed for him. Look at your posts :wackybiglaugh:, you blokes have completely melted him!

hahahaha
 
hellaeon, why do you hate Gravy and Almond? ;)

Well, we do have it on good authority that you're "just as evil as Hitler...just as evil as Mao...just as evil as Stalin...that is no exaggeration". Hell, you even admit it right in you sig!

Typical NWO blunder, that.
 
Good question. I haven't found a good link for that yet. .... I think I'm going to have to write one, and present it here for review.

Myriad

Thanks for the response. I guess like a lot of interesting things, no one has ever sat down and done exactly what we want to see. Perhaps we could scam some grad student into doing a thesis on it :)

Of course, this again points out something the CTists always want to brush off - really understanding these issues isn't easy. Even a seemingly simple question like how a stove works can get amazingly complicated quite quickly. I think if we could get them to understand this one point, we'd be well on our way to convincing them completely.
 
guys guys guys!

you have posted so much information even I am struggling to embrace it all!
There is no way (starting at gravy's response last page) he will respond to this, I will start a new thread with it or suggest someone does. You have gone overload on so many facts hahaha, its like stirring up a hornets nest.

Do a gravy/almond v kameelyun thread.....he is so wrong, but he wont absord the twenty comments posted since full of facts.

unfortunately he may be so wrong and you could supply so many facts but Kameelyn will still happily go ahead thinking he is correct as do most CT'ers and probably thinks I showed them.
 
BTW, the NIST report concluded that even if the sprinklers had been fully functional, they did not have the capacity to contain massive simultaneous fires on multiple floors in the towers.

Yeah, I was a little unclear there. The jet fuel ignited and spread fire faster than would have been possible by any conventional accident scenario, so it was the most important factor in how the fire got to that point. The idea I was trying to get across is that if you were to deactivate the sprinkler system in most skyscraper office buildings (and firefighters and civilians weren't fighting the fire), a fire started with a match in a wastebasket could eventually (probably around 30-60 minutes, if open stairwells connect adjacent floors as they did on some WTC tower floors) reach the same condition. The exceptions would be (generally older) buildings designed for fire control by compartmentation -- and even then, since comparmentation was replaced by active suppression (sprinklers) in most building codes due to being less effective, it's only a matter of time.

I've been curious about the exact meaning of NIST's FAQ statement about the sprinklers (that is, the 1,500 square feet limit per floor on its designed capacity) since I first read it. As far as I know, if one assumes that each individual sprinkler head is working as it's designed to, the ability of sprinkers to contain a fire shouldn't, in theory and within practical limits, depend on the area or volume of the fire per se. Therefore, I've interpreted this limit as reflecting limits on the rates of water flow through the relevant supply pipes. In other words, activating too many sprinker heads would have the an effect analogous to opening too many fire hydrants in a city, the reduction of water supply pressure below what's needed for any individual sprinker head to be effective.

Now that I've had occasion to focus on that question, I find that information in the full NIST report confirms my suppositions:

NIST calculations showed that the installed automatic sprinkler system was capable of delivering the minimum requred water flow for control of office fires up to 4500 ft^2. [NIST NCSTAR1 pp. 12-13; emphasis mine]

Even had this [damage to sprinkler water supply pipes] not happened, the system was designed to supply water to about 8 sprinkler heads at one time, enough to control the flames from as much as 1,500 ft^2 of burning material. The water supply was likely sufficient to control fires up to triple that size. [ibid. p. 24]

Figure 5-2, page 63, is a schematic of the sprinkler and standpipe plumbing for WTC1.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
[ct]
They're all gov't shills who were told what the results should be!
[/ct]

That is exactly why I usually don't bother to show them the list. However, Kam was purposely promoting the "engineer/scientist" aspect of the issue, asking us how could we question the wisdom of Pegalow and jones, two professionals in the relative fields in question...so for this reason he should be made aware that when it comes to who has the most "science" and "experts" behind it, the story as told by the USG wins hands down.

TAM:)
 
(snip)
I've seen no convincing evidence that iron or steel was melted in the 9/11 fires before or after collapse. Re-labeling an ordinary thermogram "molten iron hot spots" doesn't do it for me, unless Prof. Jones can show me his patent for a spectrophotometer that can identify specific chemical species underneath meters of rubble.

Respectfully,
Myriad

That was my point here: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=72906

On the screwloosechange forum, I've repeatedly asked StunnedBunnie er, Stundie if any slag was ever found during the cleanup. This would be evidence of steel that had been melted. His only answer so far?

I do not know seeing as I was not at the clean up. Apparently Jones sample was some slag, so it could have been possible!
 
Kameelyun quoting Charles Pegelow said:
1. Mr. Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl stated before the Committee on Science of the U.S. House of Representatives 6 March 2002 Hearing: FEMA did not provide "videotapes and photographs taken on 9/11 and the following days and copies of the engineering drawings. At this time, having the videotapes, photographs and copies of the drawings not only is useful, but also is essential in enabling us to conduct any analysis of the collapse and to formulate conclusions from our effort";

I can't let this thread go by without pointing to this example of Troofer tactics. Here, Troofer Pegelow omits the information he does not wish his reader to have. Subsequent to this hearing, Dr. Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl Ph.D Civil Engineering (Structures), to give him his full credentials:

1. Received the information he required, including blueprints of the buildings
2. Used this information to create a realistic computer model of the impact and fires.
3. Did this independently of NIST and FEMA.
4. Concluded that the buildings fell as a result of fires weakening the steel
 

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom