Stop it with the Maverick BS already

I know! Maverick was only one spot on my PALIN BINGO card. I was dead in the water and going to loose to the wife when Palin dropped the "special needs child" for BINGO!

Daredelvis
 
Oh the irony.

See, John McCain's "Maverick" label comes from bucking the GOP on mostly domestic polices but on foreign policy he almost in lock (goose) step, outside of going against Ronald Reagan's decision to deploy U.S. troops to Lebanon.

Was McCain even in the Senate when the decision was taken to send the Marines into Lebanon?
 
I know! Maverick was only one spot on my PALIN BINGO card. I was dead in the water and going to loose to the wife when Palin dropped the "special needs child" for BINGO!

Daredelvis

See, you should have been playing the Palin drinking game like I was. Sure the word Maverick is only owrth a single drink, but it gets said enough times that EVERYONE playing is a winner.
 
I still continue to be amazed by people who try to make the point that McCain is exactly the same as every other Republican, and the idea that this chant of "Maverick" is somehow meant to fool people. It really blows me away. Are you guys always this intellectually dishonest? Or are you just young and don't really follow politics all that closely?

McCain has been an absolute pain in the arse and problem for the Republicans at various times going back forever. There have never been a shortage of people on the right who wanted to throttle the guy at one time or another. You guys simply cannot be serious. He is, by far, the rights most "moderate" member. BY FAR. Reached accross the isle more than any other. Stood in the way of good Republican ideas more than any other. Was called a Maverick by news anchors dozens (if not hundereds) of times in his career, because of his constantly grandstanding against his own party.

To see things like "Maybe he thinks telling us he's a maverick over and over will convince us" make my head spin. I think it's entirely more obvious that some people think that saying he's exactly the same as every other Republican often enough will convince us that he's just Bush 2.0.

I really am suprised as the intellectual dishonesty or outright ignorance of this crap.
 
I still continue to be amazed by people who try to make the point that McCain is exactly the same as every other Republican, and the idea that this chant of "Maverick" is somehow meant to fool people. It really blows me away. Are you guys always this intellectually dishonest? Or are you just young and don't really follow politics all that closely?
Man, if we had a dime for every time you get astonished because most people don't see things the same way you do, we could bail out the economy ourselves.
 
I still continue to be amazed by people who try to make the point that McCain is exactly the same as every other Republican, and the idea that this chant of "Maverick" is somehow meant to fool people. It really blows me away. Are you guys always this intellectually dishonest? Or are you just young and don't really follow politics all that closely?

McCain has been an absolute pain in the arse and problem for the Republicans at various times going back forever. There have never been a shortage of people on the right who wanted to throttle the guy at one time or another. You guys simply cannot be serious. He is, by far, the rights most "moderate" member. BY FAR. Reached accross the isle more than any other. Stood in the way of good Republican ideas more than any other. Was called a Maverick by news anchors dozens (if not hundereds) of times in his career, because of his constantly grandstanding against his own party.

To see things like "Maybe he thinks telling us he's a maverick over and over will convince us" make my head spin. I think it's entirely more obvious that some people think that saying he's exactly the same as every other Republican often enough will convince us that he's just Bush 2.0.

I really am suprised as the intellectual dishonesty or outright ignorance of this crap.

I'll agree that John McCain circa 2000 could indeed lay claim to the M-word that I no longer acknowledge. John McCain Circa 2008 has fallen all over himself to prove to the base how much he is one of them. That' would be okay, but he seems to want to claim that he is an independant thinker. He can't have it both ways.
 
The term Maverick was not invented by McCain, or championed by McCain until very recently.

It was applied to him by the media and pundits, repeatedly. And usually when they were in support of him for standing against the Republicans for one thing or another. It was a term used in an endearing way by people who opposed the right. I remember right wing pundits lambasting him repeatedly for just playing up to the left and trying to be friends with the left in order to advance his own agenda, rather than the parties.

There can be no greater testimony to his "maverick" status than the fact that so many on the right can't stand the guy, and were giving him little to no support before he put Palin (an apparent Regan Conservative), on the ticket.

In 2000 I repeatedly saw people on the left claiming that it was terrible that Bush got the nomination and how it should have gone to McCain because he was the only Republican they could ever see themsleves voting for. You couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting someone on the left who was speaking highly of McCain, the maverick, and how all the other Republican's should take his lead.

And now that he's actually got a nomination, all that is out the window of course. And the claim is made that he is falsely claiming to be a Maverick, when it wasn't even him who came up with the term (in regards to himself).

Forgive me for being confused. What is the truth? Did the left really love him in the past? Or did they only ever want McCain in the past because they knew he was the weakest candidate (in terms of base Republican support), and therefore easiest to beat?

Or was everyone honest about it then, but now they can't bring themsleves to admit that McCain is so much different than the average Republican, because it serves their purposes more to make him parallel to Bush in every way, in order to bolster their electoral chances? There is obviously still an ongoing campaign to link him to Bush, as was seen in the debate. While the mantra of the Democrats campaign is "change", at least half of their rhetoric is a rejection of the "past 8 years" and "Bush" more than championing what they will actually do.

Frankly, I don't think the left was or is being honest in either case. I think they wanted us to elect McCain in the past because they saw him as easy to beat, and now they want to keep claiming he's the same as Bush in order to tar and feather him to make him easier to beat now.

The idea that he is in lockstep with Bush is ridiculous. The idea that any area in which he has not made clear what his position is, is a position he therefore shares with Bush, is the height of intellectual dishonesty. It would be like someone on the right claiming that any areas in which Obama has not expressed an opinion is a place where he is in complete lockstep with socialists or communists. I can only imaging how much complaining we would hear if that claim was made.


Imagine if it were 2000 again. And instead of Gore running, he decided to retire, and there was a new candidate for the left. And for sake of fair comparison, let's say it was some blue dog Democrat / Regan /Conservative Democrat. Someone who was undeniably different from Clinton.

I can only imagine the cacophony of complaints if the right even dared to try to tie this new candidate to Clinton, and claim that he was just an extension of Clinton. It would be called smearing and dirty campaigning and lauged at by everyone on the Left. It would be claimed it was an attempt to tie him to Clinton just for the sake of making him weaker and beatable. It would be called for what it is, complete intellectual dishonesty!
 
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The term Maverick was not invented by McCain, or championed by McCain until very recently.

I won't even argue that point. However, he sure the heck jumped on it like a pit bull jumping on a postman slathered in bacon grease though.

I can only imagine if it were 2000 again. And instead of Gore running, he decided to retire, and there was a new candidate for the left. And for sake of fair comparison, let's say it was some blue dog Democrat / Regan /Conservative Democrat. Someone who was undeniably different from Clinton.

I can only imagine the cacophony of complaints if the right even dared to try to tie this new candidate to Clinton, and claim that he was just an extension of Clinton. It would be called smearing and dirty campaigning and lauged at by everyone on the Left.

Yeah, only the left pulls that sort fo thing. The right is pure as the driven snow.

Typical partisan BS.
 
I still continue to be amazed by people who try to make the point that McCain is exactly the same as every other Republican, and the idea that this chant of "Maverick" is somehow meant to fool people.

Oh and P.S.

Of couorse its meant to fool people. I have bad news for you. McCain is a politician, fooling people is what they do. Every thing he says is meant to fool people. Obama too.
 
Without replying point-by-point, Whiplash, let me say that there were indeed many on the left who were supporting McCain to beat Bush, and it wasn't because they thought McCain was more likely to lose to the Democrats. McCain truly was a man who reached across the aisle. The McCain-Feingold bill was a daring piece of legislation that won a lot of people's respect. His positions on abortion and fair taxation policies were the envy of many a Progressive. Indeed, most liberals, including myself, breathed a sigh of relief when he beat such scary people as Huckabee and Romney.

But he's changed. He abandoned his own campaign reform legislation. He's now against almost all abortion. He's placed his lips in close proximity with the religious right's ass. In short, he's doing what he thinks it takes to win, and part of what it takes is to reclaim the Republican base. Now I don't believe that he is really fanatical about these issues, but he is looking less and less like a "maverick" as election day approaches.

I will still maintain that he is the only one of the Republican candidates that I would feel remotely comfortable with as president, but his bad choices lately and his turn to the right are disturbing. Whether that is just election-year positioning or whether he really has gone over to the dark side, I'm not qualified to tell. But the fact that he is courting the dark side is pretty scary. Not as scary as the phrase "President Huckabee", but scary enough.

He used to be a "maverick". He's not now.
 
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The term Maverick was not invented by McCain, or championed by McCain until very recently.

It was applied to him by the media and pundits, repeatedly. And usually when they were in support of him for standing against the Republicans for one thing or another. It was a term used in an endearing way by people who opposed the right. I remember right wing pundits lambasting him repeatedly for just playing up to the left and trying to be friends with the left in order to advance his own agenda, rather than the parties.

There can be no greater testimony to his "maverick" status than the fact that so many on the right can't stand the guy, and were giving him little to no support before he put Palin (an apparent Regan Conservative), on the ticket.

In 2000 I repeatedly saw people on the left claiming that it was terrible that Bush got the nomination and how it should have gone to McCain because he was the only Republican they could ever see themsleves voting for. You couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting someone on the left who was speaking highly of McCain, the maverick, and how all the other Republican's should take his lead.

And now that he's actually got a nomination, all that is out the window of course. And the claim is made that he is falsely claiming to be a Maverick, when it wasn't even him who came up with the term (in regards to himself).

Forgive me for being confused. What is the truth? Did the left really love him in the past? Or did they only ever want McCain in the past because they knew he was the weakest candidate (in terms of base Republican support), and therefore easiest to beat?

Or was everyone honest about it then, but now they can't bring themsleves to admit that McCain is so much different than the average Republican, because it serves their purposes more to make him parallel to Bush in every way, in order to bolster their electoral chances? There is obviously still an ongoing campaign to link him to Bush, as was seen in the debate. While the mantra of the Democrats campaign is "change", at least half of their rhetoric is a rejection of the "past 8 years" and "Bush" more than championing what they will actually do.

Frankly, I don't think the left was or is being honest in either case. I think they wanted us to elect McCain in the past because they saw him as easy to beat, and now they want to keep claiming he's the same as Bush in order to tar and feather him to make him easier to beat now.

The idea that he is in lockstep with Bush is ridiculous. The idea that any area in which he has not made clear what his position is, is a position he therefore shares with Bush, is the height of intellectual dishonesty. It would be like someone on the right claiming that any areas in which Obama has not expressed an opinion is a place where he is in complete lockstep with socialists or communists. I can only imaging how much complaining we would hear if that claim was made.


Imagine if it were 2000 again. And instead of Gore running, he decided to retire, and there was a new candidate for the left. And for sake of fair comparison, let's say it was some blue dog Democrat / Regan /Conservative Democrat. Someone who was undeniably different from Clinton.

I can only imagine the cacophony of complaints if the right even dared to try to tie this new candidate to Clinton, and claim that he was just an extension of Clinton. It would be called smearing and dirty campaigning and lauged at by everyone on the Left. It would be claimed it was an attempt to tie him to Clinton just for the sake of making him weaker and beatable. It would be called for what it is, complete intellectual dishonesty!

Wow, just Wow....the amount of words I just quoted, will never equal the bandwidth wasted by quoting them...

FreeRepublic.com is your friend Lash...
 
Without replying point-by-point, Whiplash, let me say that there were indeed many on the left who were supporting McCain to beat Bush, and it wasn't because they thought McCain was more likely to lose to the Democrats. McCain truly was a man who reached across the aisle. The McCain-Feingold bill was a daring piece of legislation that won a lot of people's respect. His positions on abortion and fair taxation policies were the envy of many a Progressive. Indeed, most liberals, including myself, breathed a sigh of relief when he beat such scary people as Huckabee and Romney.


I was one of those who breathed a great sigh of relief when McCain won the GOP nod. I thought "Well, the worst case scenario is President McCain - not too shabby."


But he's changed. He abandoned his own campaign reform legislation. He's now against almost all abortion. He's placed his lips in close proximity with the religious right's ass. In short, he's doing what he thinks it takes to win, and part of what it takes is to reclaim the Republican base. Now I don't believe that he is really fanatical about these issues, but he is looking less and less like a "maverick" as election day approaches.


Yes, exactly. I was one of those Democrats who would have eagerly voted for McCain in 2000 if he'd won the GOP nomination. But now, especially after seeing how he's run his campaign over the last few months, he's not only lost my vote, but he's lost my respect as well.


I will still maintain that he is the only one of the Republican candidates that I would feel remotely comfortable with as president, but his bad choices lately and his turn to the right are disturbing. Whether that is just election-year positioning or whether he really has gone over to the dark side, I'm not qualified to tell. But the fact that he is courting the dark side is pretty scary. Not as scary as the phrase "President Huckabee", but scary enough.

He used to be a "maverick". He's not now.


Agreed. "Maverick" McCain has sold out to the frothing religious-right base of the GOP and the slimey tactics of Karl Rovian politics. Ultimately, to keep his political legacy alive, McCain would have to kowtow to those who put him in power, namely the religious right and neocons. Not to mention, if he were to die in office (a real possibility), then he's dropping Sarah Palin (George Bush with breasts) on us with all the horrible ramifications her presidency would bring.

I'm finished with John McCain.
 
The idea that he is in lockstep with Bush is ridiculous.
I give McCain credit for his position on climate change. Other than that, in terms of issues that matter to voters (campaign finance reform not amongst), I can't identify a significant difference between McCain (circa 2008) and Bush.

  • Iraq? Indistinguishable.
  • Afghanistan? Indistinguishable.
  • Israel/Palestine? Indistinguishable.
  • Foreign policy in general? Indistinguishable.
  • Tax policy? Indistinguishable.
  • Health care? Indistinguishable.
  • Social security? Indistinguishable.
  • Supreme court appointments? Indistinguishable.
  • Immigration? Indistinguishable.
  • Regulating financial markets? Indistinguishable.
  • Energy policy? Indistinguishable.
Help me out here. Where is there a significant difference?
 
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I have no problem with McCain alling himself a maverick. After all a maverick usually means a certain type of horse. So when I think of McCain as maverick I think of a horse then I think of the particular piece of horse anatomy that best sums up McCain. Yup Johnny Ol' boy you are one heck of a maverick's hind quarters! Yes indeed!
 
I was one of those who breathed a great sigh of relief when McCain won the GOP nod. I thought "Well, the worst case scenario is President McCain - not too shabby."

Me too... actually last year I was for Hillary, McCain then Obama in order. That changed in direct proportion to McCain's change.

Yes, exactly. I was one of those Democrats who would have eagerly voted for McCain in 2000 if he'd won the GOP nomination. But now, especially after seeing how he's run his campaign over the last few months, he's not only lost my vote, but he's lost my respect as well.

Same here. I am an independent and I would have voted for McCain in 2000, that was my plan.

He has also lost my vote and respect.

Agreed. "Maverick" McCain has sold out to the frothing religious-right base of the GOP and the slimey tactics of Karl Rovian politics. Ultimately, to keep his political legacy alive, McCain would have to kowtow to those who put him in power, namely the religious right and neocons. Not to mention, if he were to die in office (a real possibility), then he's dropping Sarah Palin (George Bush with breasts) on us with all the horrible ramifications her presidency would bring.

I'm finished with John McCain.

I only HOPE I am finished with McCain.
 
I give McCain credit for his position on climate change. Other than that, in terms of issues that matter to voters (campaign finance reform not amongst), I can't identify a significant difference between McCain (circa 2008) and Bush.

  • Iraq? Indistinguishable.
  • Afghanistan? Indistinguishable.
  • Israel/Palestine? Indistinguishable.
  • Foreign policy in general? Indistinguishable.
  • Tax policy? Indistinguishable.
  • Health care? Indistinguishable.
  • Social security? Indistinguishable.
  • Supreme court appointments? Indistinguishable.
  • Immigration? Indistinguishable.
  • Regulating financial markets? Indistinguishable.
  • Energy policy? Indistinguishable.
Help me out here. Where is there a significant difference?

Torture as an interrogation technique. Or has he flip-flopped on that, too?
 

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