Stop it with the Maverick BS already

McCain has fully committed to the conservative ideology. Here's McCain talking about this Tuesday's debate:
"I guarantee you, you're going to learn a lot [during the debate Tuesday] about who's the liberal and who's the conservative and who wants to raise your taxes and who wants to lower them," McCain said.
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He's taken the branding iron from the rancher and applied it himself.
 
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Whiplash said:
Forgive me for being confused. What is the truth? Did the left really love him in the past? Or did they only ever want McCain in the past because they knew he was the weakest candidate (in terms of base Republican support), and therefore easiest to beat?
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I'm left but independent, vote by candidate and issue, not party. I didn't vote in '92 (my first eligible year) for various reasons but would've voted for Clinton. Voted Dole in '96. Gore in '00, Kerry in '04. Will vote Obama in '08. If McCain had been the GOP nom in '00 I would've easily voted for him rather than Gore.

The "truth", for lefties who honestly did like McCain in '00, is that McCain has changed massively in the last eight years. He has been a Bush supporter, Bush shill, and has destroyed (to some lefties' perspectives) the qualities that made us really respect him. The independence, the careful consideration of issues and voting for or against them only from that instead of party line. The moderate political leaning.

The biggest thing that made me lose respect for him was his willingness to get on the stage at the '04 RNC and speak for a George Bush second term. Similarly the biggest thing that made me lose respect for Colin Powell was his presentation before the UN leading to the Iraq invasion. He did gain back a bit by later quitting though.

McCain isn't the only one to suffer from his enabling of Bush. I still refer to the Patriot Act and the "use of force" bill to see which Congresspeople sold our future for momentary emotions and horrible intelligence, and which stood by the principles of this country and the power of reason. Bush's policies dirtied a lot of politicians I'd formerly respected. I'll never vote again for my state's two democratic senators for example (Boxer and Feinstein) due to their votes.

Last year, even with this loss of respect, I still viewed him favorably. My favorites last year were Kucinich, Clinton, and him. I didn't know much about Obama. Kucinich obviously went out early, and I liked more about Obama as I saw him, and less about Hillary. McCain was about as I expected. But this last month has again made me lose respect and support. He picked Palin, imo a typical idealistic right extremist. He allowed for dirty ads to go on TV. He made the crazy move to suspend his campaign and try to take credit for the bailout, then withdrew when his bluff was called.

So yeah, there are real policy and character reasons why my support for him has waned considerably in the last eight years. If he's elected I really, really hope he'll return to his old ways. If he continues this vector of support for Bush's policies, or if he lets Palin's rightist philosophy influence him, it'll be a terrible end to a formerly grand career.
 
The problem with Mavericks is that they are very good at grandstanding and sometimes able to scuttle programs but they are far less successful at actually getting anything done. To get something done you need a base of support. You alienate the opposition by voting against them 80% of the time, and you alienate your own party by voting against them 20% of the time, who does that leave you with when you want to push your agenda?

What we need is leaders who can create a broad consensus when possible and who aren't afraid to twist arms and push something through with one vote to spare when absolutely necessary.

If a maverick could get the entire heard to follow, he wouldn't be a maverick now, would he? He'd be majority leader.
 
varwoche said:
He flip-flopped:

McCain drops the torture ball
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No. That is a misleading article in which what was proposed was banning all techniques not already in the Army Field Manual, not banning "torture". The DTA (which McCain authored) passed in late '05 made torture and cruel, degrading, and/or inhumane treatment illegal. He has also supported closing Gitmo.


I give McCain credit for his position on climate change. Other than that, in terms of issues that matter to voters (campaign finance reform not amongst), I can't identify a significant difference between McCain (circa 2008) and Bush.

  • Iraq? Indistinguishable.
  • Afghanistan? Indistinguishable.
  • Israel/Palestine? Indistinguishable.
  • Foreign policy in general? Indistinguishable.
  • Tax policy? Indistinguishable.
  • Health care? Indistinguishable.
  • Social security? Indistinguishable.
  • Supreme court appointments? Indistinguishable.
  • Immigration? Indistinguishable.
  • Regulating financial markets? Indistinguishable.
  • Energy policy? Indistinguishable.
Help me out here. Where is there a significant difference?
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If you're going to use immigration, you should include Obama as well as being "indistinguishable" from Bush, since he voted for the McCain-Kennedy bill as well.

Energy? No. How much has president Bush increased, or proposed to increase our nuclear supply? Bush also supports ethanol subsidies, something that McCain does not. He also voted against the recent energy bill which Obama supported and the President signed.

He has stood in opposition to the way the Iraq War has been handled since it's inception.

He also proposed a bill in 2005 that would have tightened the standards for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac's loan requirements and would have reformed the GSE process. Link.
 
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There are a few people who are even more upset with McCain and his use of "Maverick", they have good reason to be.....


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/05/weekinreview/05schwartz.html?ref=politics


Terrellita Maverick, sister of Maury Jr., is a member emeritus of the board of the San Antonio chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union of Texas.

Considering the family’s long history of association with liberalism and progressive ideals, it should come as no surprise that Ms. Maverick insists that John McCain, who has voted so often with his party, “is in no way a maverick, in uppercase or lowercase.”

“It’s just incredible — the nerve! — to suggest that he’s not part of that Republican herd. Every time we hear it, all my children and I and all my family shrink a little and say, ‘Oh, my God, he said it again.’ ”

“He’s a Republican,” she said. “He’s branded.”
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Boo
 
IchabodPlain said:
No. That is a misleading article in which what was proposed was banning all techniques not already in the Army Field Manual, not banning "torture". The DTA (which McCain authored) passed in late '05 made torture and cruel, degrading, and/or inhumane treatment illegal. He has also supported closing Gitmo.
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Points taken. He did allow this exception though, and so far as I know it was the first time he allowed it. "Flip-flop" was overboard.

If you're going to use immigration, you should include Obama as well as being "indistinguishable" from Bush, since he voted for the McCain-Kennedy bill as well.
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Obviously I was comparing McCain to Bush. It's fine by me if you want to factor in Obama's positions, but I don't see why that's my job.

On the other points you make, there are some I agree with, others I don't, and others I'll need to look into. Thanks. (Sorry to be vague. I don't want to send the thread in every which direction, which I invited with my wide ranging list.)
 
McCain's face is not shown in this banner ad, just Palin. During the debate, Palin claimed that she herself was a maverick in addition to McCain. So let's think about it. What makes her a maverick? AGW denial? Nope. Post-hoc rationalizations based on economic interest aren't maverick at all. Intelligent design advocacy? Cronyism? Are you kidding me? That stuff is the sine qua non of modern-day authoritarians! So, would the McCain campaign please tell us how Sarah Palin in particular is a maverick? Her views seem like standard authoritarian conservative fare to me.
 

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Nyarlathotep said:
I have just listened to Sarah Palin on the news and apparently someone on the campaign team has told her to use the world "Maverick" as many times as possible ...
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I thought McCain's mavericosity was predicated on being sort of LIBBERULTM on some issues. No?

So Sarah is saying in effect "It's OK, he's not a screwball fanatic like me."

You go girl! :cool:
 
RPG Advocate said:
McCain's face is not shown in this banner ad, just Palin. During the debate, Palin claimed that she herself was a maverick in addition to McCain. So let's think about it. What makes her a maverick? AGW denial? Nope. Post-hoc rationalizations based on economic interest aren't maverick at all. Intelligent design advocacy? Cronyism? Are you kidding me? That stuff is the sine qua non of modern-day authoritarians! So, would the McCain campaign please tell us how Sarah Palin in particular is a maverick? Her views seem like standard authoritarian conservative fare to me.
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Doggone it, say it ain't so, RPG. Ya know darn well.
She said: Thanks, But No Thanks, On That Bridge To Nowhere.TM *wink!*
 
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varwoche said:
Points taken. He did allow this exception though, and so far as I know it was the first time he allowed it.
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Again, this is not correct. The Army Field Manual has never been applied to any other branch except the army, so passage of this bill, ironically, would have been the exception. *All of the military and persons held in US custody* is subject to the DTA.

I don't mean to sidetrack here, but the purpose of the AFM is to give clear and concise directions about what is allowed by soldiers who mostly are not trained in interrogation, and are in high-pressure situations in and around the battlefield. Many times they do not know who they are even interrogating. The AFM simplifies this by explicitly allowing some 19 things that soldiers in the army may do.

The CIA OTOH, is trained in interrogation, and usually deal knowingly with so-called "high-valued" targets. Their actions and methods are determined via a judicial review which is subject to a congressional review.

Both however must be in compliance with the DTA.



"Flip-flop" was overboard.
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Indeed.

Obviously I was comparing McCain to Bush. It's fine by me if you want to factor in Obama's positions, but I don't see why that's my job.
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You're right.

I mentioned it because the Immigration Bill was abhorred by many in his own party, and by those who pushed for it, the bill was touted as a bi-partisan effort.

In the energy bill I shouldn't have included Obama, but nonetheless, it is a bill that McCain voted against and the president supported. Their energy policy's only similarity I can see it increased drilling in the US for oil.



On the other points you make, there are some I agree with, others I don't, and others I'll need to look into. Thanks. (Sorry to be vague. I don't want to send the thread in every which direction, which I invited with my wide ranging list.)
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On the contrary, I think your list was a good starting point for areas where McCain has differed with his party and this president, and also where his similarities lie.
 
I'm sure you all have noticed the ineffectual campaign that McCain is running.

Remember a few weeks ago, when the "POW" thing was overused, and beat into the ground?

They are doing the exact same thing with this "maverick" BS.
 
Wangler said:
I'm sure you all have noticed the ineffectual campaign that McCain is running.

Remember a few weeks ago, when the "POW" thing was overused, and beat into the ground?

They are doing the exact same thing with this "maverick" BS.
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Good point. Time to change my sig. :)
 
chipmunk stew said:
Good point. Time to change my sig. :)
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Hey, I missed your previous sig..what did it say?

BTW, off topic, can anyone see my avatar? It was a funny picture that looked like Obama was preparing to left hook McCain, but it doesn't come across well.

I might set up a vote on what new McCain mantra will be used over the next couple of weeks...........
 
Abdul Alhazred said:
I thought McCain's mavericosity was predicated on being sort of LIBBERULTM on some issues. No?

So Sarah is saying in effect "It's OK, he's not a screwball fanatic like me."

You go girl! :cool:
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I think its more like "It's OK, we're not screwball fanatics." with a knowing wink and gentle nudge to the ribs to all the screwball fanatics in the audience.
 
Wangler said:
Hey, I missed your previous sig..what did it say?

BTW, off topic, can anyone see my avatar? It was a funny picture that looked like Obama was preparing to left hook McCain, but it doesn't come across well.

I might set up a vote on what new McCain mantra will be used over the next couple of weeks...........
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It said "McCain: a noun, a verb, and POW"
I was going to change it to "McCain: a noun, a verb, and Maverick" but decided to just leave it off.

Yes, I can see your avatar, and I got the left hook gag.
 
chipmunk stew said:
It said "McCain: a noun, a verb, and POW"
I was going to change it to "McCain: a noun, a verb, and Maverick" but decided to just leave it off.

Yes, I can see your avatar, and I got the left hook gag.
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Alright, I remember seeing your previous signature now.

LOL
 
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