Merged Stolen Palestinian Land

gdnp said:
Well, I can't say that I am privy to their reasoning, but if I had agreed to a cease-fire with the expectation that the blockade would be eased, and after 6 months there was no easing of the blockade, I would begin to wonder whether the other side was really dealing in good faith.
Not really my call. Some of the things that might be necessary:

Return of all or most of the west bank and east jerusalem, evacuating or dismantling settlements, equal rights for Arabs in Israel, compensation for confiscated land, limited right of return. Maybe international control of the temple mount. That sort of thing. Stopping the expansion of settlements and dismantling illegal ones would be a good start.
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I agree except for limited right of return .
 
Hamas, for example, refrained from firing rockets for periods of over a week during the 6 month cease-fire, with (by some accounts, at least) two months having only 2 rocket each. Israel made no gesture to reward this good behavior. Why should we believe that if the Palestinians were to renounce violence that Israel would give them favorable peace terms in return?
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You call "only" firing a certain number of missiles at Israel "Good Behavior"?

:dl:
 
dudalb said:
You call "only" firing a certain number of missiles at Israel "Good Behavior"?
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I am not claiming the cease-fire did not have violations. Not all missiles, however, were fired by Hamas, and 1 missile in a month, although still unacceptable, is much better than 20 missiles a day that were landing before the cease-fire.

I do not believe that Israel had any intention of easing the blockade. Their goal was not to stop missile attacks but to force the collapse of the Hamas government.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
Let's assume this is true. Why is this distinction not made in any of the literature (books, journals, that kind of thing)?
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If you can't distinguish between, or are naive to, the Zionist Political movement (started by Theodore Herzl) and a simple support for a Jewish Homeland then there's no hope for you.

If you've never seen this distinction then I advise you choose another subject for your dissertation, because you sure as hell ain't gonna be a successful with your current choice.

Maybe one day you'll get it. It's not rocket science.
 
Pardalis said:
Because as we all know, Hamas ended up breaking the cease fire anyway.
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Actually Israel never conformed to the ceasefire agreement in the first place. Part of the Agreement was to cease it's blockade on Gaza, Israel ignored that. And then in November 2008 Israel further broke the ceasefire agreement by firing upon and killing Palestinians.

But hey, you're a Zionist apologist who will never criticize Israel whatever they do, so you're never going to adhere to facts are you?
 
Tin Foil Timothy said:
Actually Israel never conformed to the ceasefire agreement in the first place. Part of the Agreement was to cease it's blockade on Gaza, Israel ignored that.
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Yes. According to the BBC from last June:

Under the terms of the new agreement, Israel will ease restrictions on the trade of certain goods between Gaza and Israel on Friday morning, and open up the crossings for all commercial goods next week.
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And we all know what really happened. Israel did not adhere to that agreement, and furthermore they LIED and said Hamas were the one's to break the ceasefire Agreement.

Israel are Liars!!

Israel claim they don't target civilians. They are liars. We've only recently seen videos of Israel murdering innocent Gazan Civilians who were handling what any idiot could see were gas cylinders and not rockets.

The extremist Zionist apologists here will fight to the death to defend the atrocities committed by their perfect idol, but they are not fooling anyone. The world is waking up to the warmongering, apartheid, racist agenda of Israel.
 
Tin Foil Timothy said:
If you can't distinguish between, or are naive to, the Zionist Political movement (started by Theodore Herzl) and a simple support for a Jewish Homeland then there's no hope for you.

If you've never seen this distinction then I advise you choose another subject for your dissertation, because you sure as hell ain't gonna be a successful with your current choice.

Maybe one day you'll get it. It's not rocket science.
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....Are you stupid? Seriously?

In the texts we reference, including academic books and journals on International politics, NO SUCH DISTINCTION IS MADE. None of them. No one makes this distinction using the terms "Zionist" and "zionist".

So tell me. Did you make these terms up? If yes, then ok, I get the reason you did it, but your attempt to lie about it now is simply bizarre. If you did NOT make up these terms then please tell me why none of the literature and none of my exceptionally competent lecturers are aware of the two separate terms.

Incidentally, my dissertation is specifically about to what extent the Israeli/Arab conflict is religious.
 
MarkCorrigan said:
....Are you stupid? Seriously?

In the texts we reference, including academic books and journals on International politics, NO SUCH DISTINCTION IS MADE. None of them. No one makes this distinction using the terms "Zionist" and "zionist".

So tell me. Did you make these terms up? If yes, then ok, I get the reason you did it, but your attempt to lie about it now is simply bizarre. If you did NOT make up these terms then please tell me why none of the literature and none of my exceptionally competent lecturers are aware of the two separate terms.

Incidentally, my dissertation is specifically about to what extent the Israeli/Arab conflict is religious.
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No, are YOU stupid?

Grow up, stop the single digit IQ childish personal attacks, and start educating your stubborn, naive self about the Zionist Movement, a proactive group started by Theodore Herzl that planned and brought about the creation of Israel with the aid of the British and at the expense of the indigenous Palestinians and the simple belief that Jews have a right to a homeland.

If your alleged 'exceptionally competent lecturers' are not aware of the difference then you oughta find new tutors.

You are suffering from an acute bout of Appeal to Authority. Look it up. Read about it and stop limiting your horizons by logical fallacies.

You need to start thinking for yourself, otherwise you are just going to turn out like a clone of some politically biased Borg that preceded you.
 
Pardalis said:
You know, it's called a ceasefire for a reason.

http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/hamas_e017.pdf

Palestinian terrorists were firing rockets ever since June, from the beginning of the agreement.
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And there's an almost perfect example of a Zionist Apologist trying his sad hardest to avoid facing up to the failure of Israel to adhere to the Cease fire agreement.

You are making yourself look like a fool. Do you really expect anyone to really believe the ceasefire agreement has suddenly changed because you put 'fire' in bold.

Pardalis, why not finally accept you are not capable of keeping up with the level of debate that's going on here?

You provide a sideshow of entertainment that allows the rest of us to rest our weary minds and enjoy some non-taxing mockery at your expense.
 
Pardalis said:
A very interesting non-response.
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A blatant example of defeat. You should have cut your losses and said nothing. However your MO is one of always having to have the last word so I'm not surprised you couldn't resist.

Pardalis you are hilarious. Have you ever wondered why your Zionist Apologist buddies aren't patting you on the back for making eloquent posts that contain real substance? They probably put up with you for at latest trying to promote the ideology, but don't expect to get voted to the executive council. There is a position for someone to make the coffees during the meetings though!!! :D :D :D
 
I just linked to you a pdf documenting Palestinian rocket fires since June 2008. That's what I call literally a breach of the cease fire.

You choose to ignore it. So be it. You just keep to your non-answers and childish name callings.
 
Pardalis said:
I just linked to you a pdf documenting Palestinian rocket fires since June 2008. That's what I call literally a breach of the cease fire.
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When discussing then these breaches of cease fire, it might help to actually quote the report:
i) A period of relative quiet between June 19 and November 4: As of June 19, there was a marked reduction in the extent of attacks on the western Negev population. The lull was sporadically violated by rocket and mortar shell fire, carried out by rogue terrorist organizations, in some instance in defiance of Hamas (especially by Fatah and Al-Qaeda supporters). Hamas was careful to maintain the ceasefire.
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Can everyone please stop the childish bickering and name calling? That applies especially to Tin Foil Timothy, but he is by no means the only offender.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles
 
Pardalis said:
You know, it's called a ceasefire for a reason.

http://www.terrorism-info.org.il/malam_multimedia/English/eng_n/pdf/hamas_e017.pdf

Palestinan terrorists were firing rockets ever since June, from the beginning of the agreement.
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And yet a blockade is also an act of war, and Israel never reopened the crossings to trade as they had agreed to.

The lull was sporadically violated by rocket and mortar shell fire, carried out by rogue terrorist organizations, in some instance in defiance of Hamas (especially by Fatah and Al-Qaeda supporters). Hamas was careful to maintain the ceasefire.
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So one set of violations was done by rogue palestinian elements, and the other set by the full force and power of the Israeli state. Who is more culpable for the cease-fire's collapse?
 
Did you guys bother to read about the abduction plan by Hamas on the next page?

Especially this bit:

Hamas has been directly involved in the attacks in cooperation with the other terrorist organizations.
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So that's Hamas trying its best to maintain the ceasefire by curbing the other terrorist organizations? :rolleyes:

You make it sound like you believe Hamas is a bonafide governmental organization, intent in making peace. Don't forget that it is first and foremost a terrorist organization.

BTW, how does a terrorist organization go about telling other terrorist organizations to stop firing its rockets at their common and mortal ennemies? How does that work in the terrorist world? How would a phone call between Hamas and the Al-Aqsa martyrs be like?

ETA: also, what about this part:
During the first period the crossings between Israel and the Gaza Strip were open most of the time ( Israel closed them for short intervals in response to rocket fire). Scores of trucks delivered large quantities of consumer goods through the Karni and Sufa (and later Kerem Shalom) crossings on a daily basis, including supplies of commodities Israel had previously not permitted into the Gaza Strip, such as cement and iron. Hamas leaders admitted that there was an improvement in the supply of goods and that civilian life was returning to normal. Life also returned to normal in the western Negev towns and villages for the first time in the period preceding the lull.als in response to rocket fire). Scores of trucks delivered large quantities of consumer goods
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