Merged State Department admits there was no protest at Benghazi consulate

That's all well and good, but looking at the information that came out later, it was clear that this was not some sort of spontaneous outburst of an out of control crowd. This was a group of people who knew where the Americans were, and set out to kill them.

The administration response didn't make that clear in the least.

I don't think this is a "scandal" of any sort, but it just made them look stupid.

The emails don't really add much to that. The only new information is just one more piece of information to show that anyone familiar with what had happened could see that this was not a spontaneous demonstration, which makes the administration's comments about a video seem very out of touch with reality.

20/20 hindsight. According to the "formal intelligence assessment" at the time, not various communications, some of which conflicted with each other, what she was saying was the latest, best information according to the CIA. Yes, this information turned out to be wrong. We all know that now.
 
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Partisan politics trumps everything nowadays. Lives, meh.
But here's the latest. Two al Qaeda linked groups involved. AQIM and Al Qaeda in Iraq.

U.S. intelligence believes that assailants connected to al Qaeda in Iraq were among the core group that attacked the diplomatic mission in Benghazi, a U.S. government official told CNN.

That would represent the second al Qaeda affiliate associated with the deadly September 11 attack that killed U.S. Ambassador Christopher Stevens and three other Americans.

Previously, intelligence officials said there were signs of connections to al Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb, the North African wing of the terror group.

The revelation that members of al Qaeda in Iraq are suspected of involvement in the Libya attack comes at a time when there is a growing number of fighters from that group also taking part in the Syrian civil war.

The AQ in Iraq can't be a surprise though because it appears alot of them were from Derna, Libya (near Benghazi).

The weakened al Qaeda affiliate has had a resurgence in Iraq since U.S. forces left the country at the end of last year. The group had used Libya as a source for fighters. In a 2008 cable, Stevens described a nearby town of Derna as "a wellspring of Libyan foreign fighters" for al Qaeda in Iraq.

Here's Hillary's response to the email two hours after the initial attack.

Posting something on Facebook is not in and of itself evidence, and I think it just underscores how fluid the reporting was at the time and continued for some time to be," Clinton said.

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/...attackers-tied-to-al-qaeda-in-iraq/?hpt=hp_t1

The question would be 'how credible are their Facebook claims of responsibility?'.
Note, the first claim of responsibility (the Facebook claim) came from Ansar al-Sharia, and that group subsequently denied responsibility. Tools perhaps?
 
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Thread shows right wing still desperate. Film after the Late Late Show.
 
Reuters claims to have emails showing that the state department was informed two hours after that the attack on the diplomatic compund was a terrorist attack and not a protest that got out of hand.

That's not true.

According to the e-mail, the state department knew that a terrorist group claimed credit for the attack. That is most definitely not proof positive that it was in fact a planned terrorist attack carried out by the organization claiming credit.

It seems that critics of Obama think he should have immediately publicized this information and reacted as if it were true with no corroboration.

Is that really the argument?

ETA: Should we then conclude that criminal law enforcement should always publicize every detail about a crime (including claims of organizations taking credit for it)? And should we actually believe every claim of someone taking credit for a crime? (Note well: there are any number of reasons why an individual or a group might take credit for a crime they did not commit.)
 
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According to the e-mail, the state department knew that a terrorist group claimed credit for the attack. That is most definitely not proof positive that it was in fact a planned terrorist attack carried out by the organization claiming credit.

You don't understand. They got this information about Ansar al-Sharia claiming credit for the attack from Facebook and Twitter. That means it's ironclad proof, and impeachment proceedings must begin immediately!
 
That's all well and good, but looking at the information that came out later, it was clear that this was not some sort of spontaneous outburst of an out of control crowd. This was a group of people who knew where the Americans were, and set out to kill them.

The administration response didn't make that clear in the least.
Except that Obama did in fact refer to it as a terrorist action (even without indicating whether or not it was something planned in advance or someone merely taking advantage of the diversion created by the protests) twice within the first two days. And very shortly after, he told the public that the nature of the weapons used suggests at least some degree of planning, even though he wasn't ready to draw any conclusions yet, and then finally after a couple of weeks, the administration did publicize that it was a planned, organized attack.

I still see no cause for criticism.

What should they have done differently? It sounds like critics would prefer an administration that shoots first and aims later (or makes statements that are best guesses--or even dubious intelligence-- as if they were absolutely certain, as one President Bush was wont to do).
 
You don't understand. They got this information about Ansar al-Sharia claiming credit for the attack from Facebook and Twitter. That means it's ironclad proof, and impeachment proceedings must begin immediately!

:D


I can remember during the early '70s, it was a relatively common occurrence for multiple organizations to take conflicting credit for the same attack. (That is, not claiming they worked together, but each claiming sole credit for the bombing or whatever in question.)
 
That's not true.

According to the e-mail, the state department knew that a terrorist group claimed credit for the attack. That is most definitely not proof positive that it was in fact a planned terrorist attack carried out by the organization claiming credit.

It seems that critics of Obama think he should have immediately publicized this information and reacted as if it were true with no corroboration.

Is that really the argument?

No. The argument is that the administration is either lying or was not involved in discussions on the aftermath of the attack. Within 24-hours of the attack the CIA station chief for Libya asserted that this was a coordinated attack. The survivors of the raid described to State a coordinated attack using small-unit tactics - having control of the battlespace, creating a diversionary attack and then launching the main assault. The participants describe fleeing into a kill zone. Those aren't hallmarks of a mob attack.

When reporters asked questions to this administration regarding rumors that were leaking about the nature of the attack, the administration continued with the falshood. It was not until the eve of sworn testimony did State let the cat out of the bag.
 
You don't understand. They got this information about Ansar al-Sharia claiming credit for the attack from Facebook and Twitter. That means it's ironclad proof, and impeachment proceedings must begin immediately!
"However, an examination of the known Facebook and Twitter accounts of Ansar al-Sharia in Benghazi reveals no such claim of responsibility."

http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/...-claim-of-responsibility-for-benghazi-attack/

Okay, so, I know: CNN. Still, these days isn't it enough to announce that "Doubts Have Surfaced" or "Questions Have Been Raised"?

I mean, who reads past any of that anyway?
 
When reporters asked questions to this administration regarding rumors that were leaking about the nature of the attack, the administration continued with the falshood. It was not until the eve of sworn testimony did State let the cat out of the bag.

No, the administration repeatedly reiterated that the investigation was ongoing, and while all this was going on, the CIA was busy trying to untangle the confusing and contradictory information about what happened (like the information that Ansar al-Sharia claimed responsibility on Facebook and Twitter that is at the heart of Virus' OP, when they apparently did no such thing and in fact denied responsibility on several later occasions).

EDIT: And you still haven't backed up your claims that the attackers "dragged Ambassador Stephens' corpse through the streets of Benghazi and the State Department tried to sell that optic as concerned bystanders rendering aid", because all the actual evidence points to the exact opposite being true.
 
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Nobody cares. Not even those who pretend to.

I care. Dancing on the graves of patriots and heroes for a stupid political attack kind of bothers me. The more I read about all the related events, including the rejection for the increased security in Tripoli, the more it looks like nothing more than a stupid political attack.

Now of course someone will claim that they're just 'standing up' for those slain, and 'how dare I question their motives', blah, blah, blah. There are reasonable criticisms of the way this was handled, and I don't intend to lump them all together, but the loudest are clearly political hackery.
 
No. The argument is that the administration is either lying or was not involved in discussions on the aftermath of the attack. Within 24-hours of the attack the CIA station chief for Libya asserted that this was a coordinated attack. The survivors of the raid described to State a coordinated attack using small-unit tactics - having control of the battlespace, creating a diversionary attack and then launching the main assault. The participants describe fleeing into a kill zone. Those aren't hallmarks of a mob attack.

Good thing the administration never made the claim that they knew this was only a mob attack.

I still don't see any evidence for lying or other misbehavior.

I see a bunch of spin and misinformation (including, for example, the thread title and claim made in the OP).

You seem to think that there was a single black-and-white question about the attack: either it was a completely unplanned spontaneous attack by people who were only protesting the film, that is, a "mob" (that just happened to bring along some serious firepower) or it was an attack planned by a known terrorist organization weeks to months in advance. In fact, there were a lot of possibilities in between those two extremes, and I don't believe anyone actually ever asserted the former.

I pointed out in another thread that words like "premeditated" or even "planned" don't mean "planned weeks to months in advance by a known terrorist organization". It could mean that unfriendlies (previously organized or not) on the very day of the protests saw an opportunity to take advantage of the diversion. It could even be that someone involved in the protest--a member of the "mob"-- went back home to get a few friends and weapons, cooked up a plan of attack, and then did the attack. (Yes, both of these scenarios would be described as premeditated or planned terrorist attacks, but would not include a scenario where a known terrorist organization planned the attack weeks or months in advance.)

[ETA: And, on a bit of a tangent, I think there's even another question. Was the protest of the film there even genuine? That is, did the terrorists get lucky and have this diversion just happen to coincide with the date of their long-planned attack, or might the protest even have been staged or drummed up? In other words, I think the question still remains as to how big an action this was. One possibility is that it was very large indeed and involved some of the other protests against the film across the Muslim world. Just pointing out that it's not a simple yes or no question that needs to be answered: was this terrorism or not? There was--and remains to be--a lot of questions in need of answers before we can be sure we have accounted for any and all people responsible for this act.]



When reporters asked questions to this administration regarding rumors that were leaking about the nature of the attack, the administration continued with the falshood.
What falsehood? I don't believe anyone ever contradicted the CIA statement that it was a coordinated attack. If so, please give me a quotation.

I believe the administration indicated that the investigation was ongoing and they could only offer speculation. Are you asserting that they should have said they were definitely sure of the specific nature of the attack before they were? (I reject your assertion that they were certain earlier. That doesn't line up with the facts.)

ETA: "The argument is that the administration is either lying or was not involved in discussions on the aftermath of the attack." What possible motive could the administration have for either lying or willfully staying out of intelligence discussion on the aftermath of the attack? Seems like a pretty pointless conspiracy!

ETA: And I think the Rose Garden speech (which is the one Romney chose to attack) was entirely appropriate. He pointed out that we will never buckle under to terrorist actions, and that we are resolved to get to the bottom of this attack and bring justice to those responsible. It would have been premature and irresponsible for him to go off half-cocked and start claiming certainty about who was responsible before we had good intel.
 
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ETA: "The argument is that the administration is either lying or was not involved in discussions on the aftermath of the attack." What possible motive could the administration have for either lying or willfully staying out of intelligence discussion on the aftermath of the attack? Seems like a pretty pointless conspiracy!.

But that's exactly what it is. They're convinced that Obama hates America and loves Muslim terrorists and is completely supportive of their goals, so they're looking for (and cherry-picking) anything about what happened in Libya that will confirm this nonsensical strawman version of the President.

For example, take this recent feature at the American Spectator, which advances the bizarre wingnut assertion that Obama deliberately let the attack in Benghazi happen because his pro-Sharia ideology drives him to support terrorist groups in their efforts to impose Islamic law, even at the cost of American lives (including the life of one of America's ambassadors):

If what happened in Benghazi wasn't incompetence -- was it ideology?

Did Sharia kill Ambassador Chris Stevens, Foreign Service officer Sean Smith, and two Navy SEALs?

And is Hillary Clinton's insistence yesterday that the leaked State Department e-mails were "not evidence" yet more evidence that indicates the Obama White House not only knew what was going on but deliberately turned a blind eye to Benghazi because of that ideology?

Specifically, did an ideological soft spot for Sharia -- Obama's name is being used by his step-grandmother to raise funds to educate kids in Sharia -- blind the U.S. government to the threat posed by Ansar Al-Sharia? A group whose objective, says its Libyan leader, is to "impose Sharia" on Libya.
 
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There's a limit to which those in charge can claim, "we got bad information".

Part of your job is to get good information.

ETA: And if you get conflicting information, your job is to sort out the good from the bad. It isn't always easy, but that's why they get paid the big bucks.
 
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