Merged State Department admits there was no protest at Benghazi consulate

[Checkmite]

There were supposedly AC-130s an hour away in Italy. We know definitively the administration has no qualms about crossing international borders with impunity.

And what do you expect AC-130's to have done? They're big lumbering cargo planes.

The attack allegedly was over in 45 minutes.

 

[Meadmaker]

Leon Panetta recently complained about "monday morning quarterbacking" by people who said that he should have moved in forces. He said that he didn't have a clear picture about what was going on and wouldn't commit forces to harm's way without more knowldege.

In other words, forces were available. Whether or not they should have been committed is a more difficult call to make, but they were available.

 

[Cylinder]

And what do you expect AC-130's to have done? They're big lumbering cargo planes.

The attack allegedly was over in 45 minutes.

AC-130 is probably the optimal platform:



There are worldwide alert assets. For instance, every air wing has an alert contingent at all times. Each fleet will have the same tasking, though I've never experienced directly combined operations with the Navy. That's how the predators made it on station.

The attack lasted ~6 hours, though the administration has yet to offer a narrative of the attack that has held up to basic scrutiny.

 

[SezMe]

Charles Woods, who is the father of slain Navy Seal in Bengazi, Tyrone Woods, ...

Bill, was Beck the primary source for this post as ANTPogo claims? Knowing that Beck is a pathological liar, did you check other accounts of the scene? If so, which ones? If not, why not?

 

[Checkmite]

AC-130 is probably the optimal platform:



There are worldwide alert assets. For instance, every air wing has an alert contingent at all times. Each fleet will have the same tasking, though I've never experienced directly combined operations with the Navy. That's how the predators made it on station.

Yes, but there's a difference between a plane being an hour's flight away, and actual support being an hour away.

Again, what exactly would you expect the AC-130's to do? Drop tanks on the street? Drop a batallion of infantry? How many of each, and decided how? And how long would it take to gather these things and load them onto the planes for their one-hour flight? What would they do once there - shoot at anything else that's shooting? This is exactly the kind of thing that the people who actually run the military are criticizing as "Monday-morning quarterbacking".

The attack lasted ~6 hours, though the administration has yet to offer a narrative of the attack that has held up to basic scrutiny.

Whichever. With even such basic details unknown, it's frankly silly to confidently declare that the US could've provided unspecified "reinforcements, air support, and ground support" that would've made a difference if they had wanted. For all we know, the ambassador was dead within 15 minutes of the first shot.

 

[Cylinder]

Again, what exactly would you expect the AC-130's to do? Drop tanks on the street? Drop a batallion of infantry?

You may want to look at the video. An AC-130 is a ground attack variant. I don't know if there was an AC-130 that could respond with a helpful TOT - but there are some reports that they were. I do know that if the report from the survivors are true and one of the operators were killed illuminating a target. If true, there was an armed aircraft on station - most probably UAV.

The real problem is 6 weeks later we still don't have a simple narrative of the disposition of our own forces or the national command response. Something's being hidden that prevents that very basic step.

 

[qayak]

Charles Woods, who is the father of slain Navy Seal in Bengazi, Tyrone Woods, says that Hillary came up to him on the tarmac when the bodies were flown back to the states and said "We will make sure the person who made this film is arrested and procecuted".

Woods says that he has found out that the Obama administration knew what was happening after the first bullet was fired and was sitting in The Situation Room watching people that they could have saved die.

Tyron Woods was located at a CIA office outside of the Embassy and was told to "stand down" and not go in to rescue. He denied these orders and radioed in for backup and went ahead and rushed in to try to save the Ambassitor.

Because of this, Vice President Joe Biden said to Charles Woods at the funeral service loud enough for everyone to hear "Has your son always had the balls of cue balls?" thinking that this somehow was a honorable and respetable thing for crazy uncle Joe to say.

Woods also says that when Obama shook his hand, our president would not look him in the eye.

Anyway, these are the folks you are going to reelect. Kudos.

Conspiracy Theory much? You know it's almost certainly a lie when all the "sources" qualify everything they say with the word "apparently."

"Apparently" means "appearing as such but not necessarily so."

That's the problem with right wing media talking heads. They don't check anything to get the facts of what actually happened. They make it up on the fly and use the word "apparently" in front of everything to cover there dumb asses.

 

[Checkmite]

You may want to look at the video. An AC-130 is a ground attack variant. I don't know if there was an AC-130 that could respond with a helpful TOT - but there are some reports that they were. I do know that if the report from the survivors are true and one of the operators were killed illuminating a target. If true, there was an armed aircraft on station - most probably UAV.

You're still refusing to be specific. The AC-130, in your opinion, would go there and do what? Strafe the street? What about the fleeing ambassador and Americans in nearby buildings? Would that put them in more or less danger?

 

[qayak]

I don't know...

That's the only part you got right. You don't know... but you'll make up all sorts of **** anyway. Pathetic.

 

[AlBell]

You may want to look at the video. An AC-130 is a ground attack variant. I don't know if there was an AC-130 that could respond with a helpful TOT - but there are some reports that they were. I do know that if the report from the survivors are true and one of the operators were killed illuminating a target. If true, there was an armed aircraft on station - most probably UAV.

The real problem is 6 weeks later we still don't have a simple narrative of the disposition of our own forces or the national command response. Something's being hidden that prevents that very basic step.

Indeed. Yet far too many seem to believe 4 more years of Obama is justified.

 

[Cylinder]

You're still refusing to be specific. The AC-130, in your opinion, would go there and do what?

Make sausage.

What about the fleeing ambassador and Americans in nearby buildings? Would that put them in more or less danger?

It's a trivial matter to designate freindly positions even without radio contact which we are led to beleive that the operators had.

 

[tyr_13]

For all we know, the ambassador was dead within 15 minutes of the first shot.

Actually we can be pretty sure that's not the case. Don't we have video of a crowd pulling him from the building and cheering when he's announced to be alive, and then taken to a hospital?

 

[Checkmite]

It's a trivial matter to designate freindly positions even without radio contact which we are led to beleive that the operators had.

Of course it's a trivial matter to make yourself and your position obvious to air support you don't know is coming while trying to escape and keep hidden from the enemy which is actively attacking you.

"We are led to believe" who had radio contact, exactly? The ambassador and his civilian Foreign Service bodyguards were carrying military radios? The CIA people in the building down the street had military tactical radios? Who? And who is "leading us to believe" the "operators" had these things?

Well how's this: I was there, and I say nobody had those things. So now what?

 

[Checkmite]

Actually we can be pretty sure that's not the case. Don't we have video of a crowd pulling him from the building and cheering when he's announced to be alive, and then taken to a hospital?

This is the first I'm hearing of such a video.

 

[Scopedog]

...AC-130...

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. (sorry, I had to say that, carry on)

 

[Cylinder]

Of course it's a trivial matter to make yourself and your position obvious to air support you don't know is coming while trying to escape and keep hidden from the enemy which is actively attacking you.

"We are led to believe" who had radio contact, exactly? The ambassador and his civilian Foreign Service bodyguards were carrying military radios? The CIA people in the building down the street had military tactical radios? Who? And who is "leading us to believe" the "operators" had these things?

Well how's this: I was there, and I say nobody had those things. So now what?

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/201...-for-help-during-benghazi-attack-sources-say/

These are trained operators and would have known the basic steps to identify their positions in a way that any freindly aircraft would recognize. It's something ground forces and ground attack units are trained on. It's not something really sooper sekret but its not something I would post on an open forum on the internet with ground units actively using CAS.

This isn't WWII where a ground attack aircraft gets a 2 second peek at the battle space before engaging - hell, they were getting real time video and would have been able to do identify hostile position from that feed alone.

 

[qayak]

Indeed. Yet far too many seem to believe 4 more years of Obama is justified.

As opposed to 4 years of someone with fewer brains, and scruples, than George Bush? 100 more years of Obama is justified in that case.

Look what Mitt the Twit said in regard to another terrorist:

"It's not worth moving heaven and earth, spending billions of dollars just trying to catch one person." —Mitt Romney, speaking in 2007 about killing Osama bin Laden

George Bush spent trillions on Bin Laden and Barack Obama got him, so who was right, Bush and Obama or Mitt the Twit?

"I believe in an America where millions of Americans believe in an America that's the America millions of Americans believe in. That's the America I love." –Mitt Romney (January 2012)

Just threw that one in for ***** and giggles.

"As president, I will create 12 million new jobs." —Mitt Romney, during the second presidential debate
"Government does not create jobs. Government does not create jobs." —Mitt Romney, 45 minutes later (Oct. 16, 2012)

But he won't say how he will do it or how he will finance it. Sounds like a Republican all right!

Romney's got nothing. The only people dumber than him are the people who will vote for him.

 

[Checkmite]

You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means. (sorry, I had to say that, carry on)

I'm using it because that's what you used:

There were supposedly AC-130s an hour away in Italy. We know definitively the administration has no qualms about crossing international borders with impunity.

You're talking about this thing[/i] right?

Whatever you're using it to mean, and whatever its capabilities, the questions still stand: what exactly would you do, and based on exactly what information?

Unconfirmed "survivor stories" involving radio contact, orders to stand down, and bodyguards actually being "operatives" who were "illuminating targets for armed aircraft" which managed to mysteriously never appear aside, the people we can actually confirm would have reason to know are saying it was a blitz attack, and that the ambassador and his two companions were either killed by ambush along their escape route or asphyxiated after becoming trapped in a back room. The CIA station chief says there was no exchange ordering anyone to "stand down" and no soldiers bravely defying orders to get themselves killed heroically fighting for their comrades, and according to the actual military, there was not enough information available to justify committing forces to for all intents and purposes blow the stuffing out of a city street in someone else's country.

 

[Scopedog]

I'm using it because that's what you used

This is what you said:

"Again, what exactly would you expect the AC-130's to do? Drop tanks on the street? Drop a batallion of infantry? How many of each, and decided how? And how long would it take to gather these things and load them onto the planes for their one-hour flight? What would they do once there - shoot at anything else that's shooting? This is exactly the kind of thing that the people who actually run the military are criticizing as "Monday-morning quarterbacking"."

Yeah, that's not what an AC-130 does at all. I think you've figured that out by now, but it was funny when you were clueless about it. Sorry.

 

[theprestige]

Right, because the US has "reinforcements, ground support, and air support" just hanging around their embassies in case of attacks like this one. Everyone who's seen movies knows this.

More to the point, anyone who's seen how regime change tends to play out lately should have known this. You'd think US personnel in Libya, of all places, would have been better protected. It's a perfect storm of major opportunity, and major risk. I'm surprised that Obama didn't do everything he could to maximize the opportunity and mitigate the risk for his representatives in Libya.