Star Wars Beam Weapon and the WTC Bathtub

TS1234

I clicked the link you inserted on the first page of this post, but couldnt find any links on the device itself in there. Just speculation on what could have caused all those scenarios it mentions.

So I did a quick (as I am at work,hehe) search in google "star wars beam weapon" & didnt find much. I found this:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13129.htm

Which you have probably already posted about.

What I keep thinking about is. It would have taken years to develop a device this large & with this much power & what powers it or keeps it powered? Surely someone would have leaked it to USA's enemies & they would have developed devices to measure when it has been used?

Similar to when ICBM's were invented. Something had to be invented to know when one has been used on you. This info would be gold for any enemy of the U.S.

Why is the SWBM theory not used by enemies of the U.S?

It seems even they dont think the SWBM theory is plausible.

D2011
 
Water molecules can be made to behave in certain ways by microwaves, for two reasons. One, the natural resonant frequency of a water molecule is a sub-harmonic of the 2.5 gigaHz microwave. This makes the molecules vibrate.
I'm sorry, that's completely wrong. Water molecules, when crammed together in a liquid state, do not have a resonant frequency. If you take a single molecule in free space, it has resonance, but nowhere near 2.5 GHz (nor harmonics nor sub-harmonics).

The second part of your explanation was roughly right. Water molecules are polar, more positively charged on one side and more negatively charged on the other. This allows the microwaves to efficiently jostle them around, creating heat. Other polar materials include stoneware that's not "microwave safe" - that's why non-microwave safe cookware heats up in the oven, because its molecules have polarity.
 
To put this idea of resonance another way:

how much kinetic energy does a microwave have?

the energy of the photon is related to the frequency of the wave by the equation:

E=hf,

where 'E' is the energy of the photon, 'h' is the so-called 'Planck's constant' and 'f' is the frequency. It's pretty much all "kinetic" energy since photons never slow down or speed up. Of course, since f is inverse to wavelength, this means longer waves will have less energy per photon.
 
TS1234

I clicked the link you inserted on the first page of this post, but couldnt find any links on the device itself in there. Just speculation on what could have caused all those scenarios it mentions.

So I did a quick (as I am at work,hehe) search in google "star wars beam weapon" & didnt find much. I found this:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article13129.htm

Which you have probably already posted about.

What I keep thinking about is. It would have taken years to develop a device this large & with this much power & what powers it or keeps it powered? Surely someone would have leaked it to USA's enemies & they would have developed devices to measure when it has been used?

Similar to when ICBM's were invented. Something had to be invented to know when one has been used on you. This info would be gold for any enemy of the U.S.

Why is the SWBM theory not used by enemies of the U.S?

It seems even they dont think the SWBM theory is plausible.

D2011


Already answered in style in this post: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2086102#post2086102

Which TS1234 seems to have accepted, after a fashion:

I read the problems with deploying beam weapons. Points well taken. Same with rigging skyscrapers with explosives.

Whatever happened, there must be scientific explanations. I'm still waiting for anyone to offer plausible explanations for the data sets in Wood/Reynolds. Ad hominems against them or me are not productive.
 
Steel molecules have resonant frequencies. So does rubber. It is quite plausible that some sort of beam could excite and make vibrate certain molecules, and leave other ones alone.

But what's not plausible is that a single beam would contain multiple frequencies as would be needed for your ideas to work. Most microwave systems use magnetrons to produce the microwaves, which have cavities to produce the radiation. The size of the cavities determines the resonant frequency, and so the frequency of the emitted microwaves, making it difficult to produce significantly different wavelengths at the same time. Also, most of the elements like antennas and waveguides that would be used to focus or collimate the beam are also wavelength-dependent.

Also, any electromagnetic waves would be straight-line effects. How could such a beam pass through the body of a car to heat up the tires? For your "round holes" idea to work, the beam has to be coming in vertically.

You also have the problem that your "resonance of steel" idea is very wrong. Conductive metals act as shielding against electromagnetic wavelengths, including microwaves. So anywhere there were large amounts of steel or other metals, the beam would be blocked, reflected or scattered, leading to uneven heating of the structure. And as the floors of the WTC consisted of large sheets of corrugated steel plates, it would be very unlikely that your beam weapon could transmit any large amount of energy to the lower floors.

For someone who says the laws of physics took a day off because the towers fell too fast, you're certainly advocating ignoring a lot of physics with your Beam Weapon therory.
 
the energy of the photon is related to the frequency of the wave by the equation:

E=hf,

where 'E' is the energy of the photon, 'h' is the so-called 'Planck's constant' and 'f' is the frequency. It's pretty much all "kinetic" energy since photons never slow down or speed up. Of course, since f is inverse to wavelength, this means longer waves will have less energy per photon.

But am I correct in thinking that this kinetic energy is not transferred to matter when a collision occurs?

I think TruthSeeker1234 is confusing kinetic compression waves with electomagnetic waves - hence his talk about resonant frequencies.

I may as well use this thread to learn about Physics.
 
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But am I correct in thinking that this kinetic energy is not transferred to matter when a collision occurs?

I think TruthSeeker1234 is confusing kinetic compression waves with electomagnetic waves - hence his talk about resonant frequencies.

I may as well use this thread to learn about Physics.

Or maybe a better way to put this is to say that absorbtion is not the same as vibration.
 
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So, once again, we have EDD disintergrating steel. Why didn't the steel in the cars disintegrate, why did it just "wilt"? Why didn't the steel from the steel belted tires do either?
Only enough time/energy to wilt, not disintegrate. Stray beams. Second part answered above.

So you expect us to believe that a beam powerful enough to evapourate the really huge beams of the WTC, while they were falling I might add, just happened to only illuminate the much thinner steel sheeting of the cars just long enough to wilt it, but no longer? And it did that for every car or truck it hit? Random stray beams that all hit their targets for what must have been almost exactly the same amount of time?

And were they stray beams that hit WTC3, 4, 5? Why did these stray beams stay on target long enough to drill multi-story holes through the buildings?

Good questions. Why did the towers explode? There clearly had to be some source of tremendous energy, far beyond GPE.

Did you miss the bit where I said:

And that's accepting all your assertions at face value, which you know we don't do.

I accepted your "explosion" terminology just for the sake of argument, to show you why your ideas are flawed. Of course, as several calculations have shown, there was more than enough energy from GPE to produce the effects we saw. But enough of that "reality" business, let's get back to la-la land, it's more fun, right?

So, now we're back to EDD making buildings "disappear", oh, expcept for where WTC4 was "sliced clean off". So, now EDD produces nice clean, straight slices, where before it was producing uniform, round holes.

Again, how does one EDD produce such different effects?

If you move the beam in a line, it will make a straight-edged cut, ala WTC4. Most of the cuts appear scalloped.

949045525cbab5478.jpg


I was hoping you'd say that. Why was this beam moved in a line, while the beams that "drilled the round holes" above were not moved in a straight line? Was the beam firing continuously, to let it slice a nice straight cut, or was it pulsed somehow, to let it form a hole right in the middle of a building, with no damage leading up to that hole?

How many firing modes does this thing have, anyways? And why would they use them all, and all in the space of the 10-20 seconds it took to cause all of this damage?




So, now we have EDD needing two shots to take down WTC3, when before it took down eachof the (much larger) towers in one go. So, how powerful is the EDD again? Did they just turn it up to 11 the first time? And why did it leave that one "sliced off" part of WTC4 again?


Good questions.

Yes they are. Got any good answers?


Speculating, of course. I'm starting to think of this like a focused microwave. Longer than visible light, between infrared and microwaves. It cooks steel from the inside out. The beam is round, a cylinder.

If the beam cooks steel from the inside out, and it does it fast enough to destroy the whole building in 10-20 seconds, why doesn't the steel explode from the massive internal heating? Why does it only shed some "dust" as it falls? Why do we see large piles of large, relatively intact (30 feet long) steel beams, and why don't we see any beams with evidence of internal explosions or fracturing?

There were optical effects, the afterglow recorded on many videos. I don't think it behaved differently at the same time.

This is the second time you've mentioned this afterglow, which I've never heard from anyone else. Could you explain what it is you're talking about? And if this is an actual effect, could you then explain why a glow after all this proves anything aboout a beam weapon, when such a beam would be expected to show such effect while it's operating, and not afterwards? Photons don't just loiter around, you know. They have places to go.



NOt to my satisfaction you can't.

That is becoming more apparent every day. Honestly, at this point I'm not even interested in getting you to admit your errors, although that would be nice. I'm actually more interested in seeing how much more outlandish a theory you will come up with before even you will admit that it's too outlandish.
 
Or maybe a better way to put this is to say that absorbtion is not the same as vibration.

Wiki has a good page on the photoelectric effect, which deals with a lot of these issues. The key value is the work function, which determines if the photon will be kicked out of the metal or not. Essentially the work function is equal to the energy of the lowest frequency photon that will do the job. Some representative values can be found here.

There is a fairly simple way to relate the energy of a photon to that of an electron. Energy relates to wavelength by the formula:

E_n [eV] = 1240 nm / lambda

So a photon with a wavelength of 1240 nm in the infrared has an energy of 1 eV. An electron volt (abbreviated eV) is the energy gained by an electron accelerated through an electrostatic potential of one Volt. We can convert 1 eV = 1.6 x 10^-19 Joules. As you can see an eV is a small quantity of energy.

So the energy of the microwaves would be very much lower than the work function for most metals. Thus most of the photons will be absorbed, reflected or transmitted, depending on the circumstances. The physical arrangement of the metal seems to make a big difference.

I'm just now realizing it's been a long time since I did any of this for real. I'm gettin' old....

Time for bed. Must go let the cat in first....
9490455532504ce19.jpg
 
This is the second time you've mentioned this afterglow, which I've never heard from anyone else. Could you explain what it is you're talking about? And if this is an actual effect, could you then explain why a glow after all this proves anything aboout a beam weapon, when such a beam would be expected to show such effect while it's operating, and not afterwards? Photons don't just loiter around, you know. They have places to go.

I thought the afterglow phenomenon was well known. Let's see if I can find the videos that show it.

http://www.911research.com/wtc/evidence/videos/docs/both_afterglow_at67sec.mpg

There are others that show the same thing. It does look like an effect that could be achieved by increasing the contrast, so I'm not 100% convinced this is anything other than that. But there are multiple videos which show this effect, so it could very well be something real.
 
I thought the afterglow phenomenon was well known. Let's see if I can find the videos that show it.

http://www.911research.com/wtc/evidence/videos/docs/both_afterglow_at67sec.mpg

There are others that show the same thing. It does look like an effect that could be achieved by increasing the contrast, so I'm not 100% convinced this is anything other than that. But there are multiple videos which show this effect, so it could very well be something real.

That video is a matter of a bright, cloudless day, a slightly badly adjusted camera and/or a cranked up contrast. Nothing unusual there.
 
Honestly, at this point I'm not even interested in getting you to admit your errors, although that would be nice. I'm actually more interested in seeing how much more outlandish a theory you will come up with before even you will admit that it's too outlandish.

Hey, I don't know if this beam weapon idea is right or not. I do know that beam weapons are theoretically possible, otherwise they wouldn't have been working on them for so long. Whether they actually exist, whether they could actually do damage like this, I don't know. Don't misunderstand. I don't know. I'm just trying to make sense of observations. I see steel turning into dust.
 
Hey, I don't know if this beam weapon idea is right or not. I do know that beam weapons are theoretically possible, otherwise they wouldn't have been working on them for so long.

Source?

Whether they actually exist, whether they could actually do damage like this, I don't know. Don't misunderstand. I don't know. I'm just trying to make sense of observations. I see steel turning into dust.

No. That's still drywall.
 
Pay particular attention to the ends of the perimeter columns, at the lower right. They appear to be belching smoke or dust, in plumes that reach far back into the general cloud of smoke or dust.

Drywall? From the ends of these columns? Why the ends?
Image335.jpg
 
[qimg]http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/ARG/Image120.gif[/qimg]

Drywall coming off the ends of these beams?

Pay particular attention to the ends of the perimeter columns, at the lower right. They appear to be belching smoke or dust, in plumes that reach far back into the general cloud of smoke or dust.

Drywall? From the ends of these columns? Why the ends?[qimg]http://s18.photobucket.com/albums/b108/janedoe444/ARG/Image335.jpg[/qimg]

Yes and Yes.
 
Hey, I don't know if this beam weapon idea is right or not. I do know that beam weapons are theoretically possible, otherwise they wouldn't have been working on them for so long. Whether they actually exist, whether they could actually do damage like this, I don't know. Don't misunderstand. I don't know. I'm just trying to make sense of observations. I see steel turning into dust.

I have to direct you back to this post for a thorough analysis of the possibilities of a beam weapon:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2086102#post2086102

Note that the energy required in this post doesn't involve disintegrating steel - that would require significantly more energy.

We're talking about a massive device that has to be directly above the WTC and unseen.

I would suggest also that the energy required to turn steel into dust is so high that what you are seeing cannot be steel turning into dust.

When Yuri Gellar bends a spoon do you believe he does it with the power of his mind? That's what it looks like.
 
I have to direct you back to this post for a thorough analysis of the possibilities of a beam weapon:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2086102#post2086102

Note that the energy required in this post doesn't involve disintegrating steel - that would require significantly more energy.

We're talking about a massive device that has to be directly above the WTC and unseen.

I would suggest also that the energy required to turn steel into dust is so high that what you are seeing cannot be steel turning into dust.

Acknowledged. Agreed. Energy requirements, big problem.

I'd sleep a whole lot better if I could just find plausible answers for these observations.
 
No one has explained melting car doors, exploding cars, etc, except to deny them, or say "the fire did it". If flaming rubble came down upon cars, how would that melt them? Fire doesn't melt steel. Whatever happened, it must have happened quickly, or else the paper would have caught fire.

Did you know that you can boil water in a paper cup, over fire, without the cup catching fire? It doesn't happen quickly, I can tell you that.
 

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