Star Wars Beam Weapon and the WTC Bathtub

If you want to proceed scientifically, you must consider all of the evidence in total. Viewed in isolation, many if not most of the phenomena seem reasonable. Taken together though, the picture changes.

We have a whole parking lot full of toasted cars. What do you suppose happened there? Flaming rubble? Where is the rubble? We have cars parked on the street whose engines burst into flames. Why? Flaming rubble again? Tell me specifically what event occurs so that car engines burst into flames, car windows explode from the inside out, rubber tires disappear leaving steel belts behind, and paper is unscathed. Just give me the scenario. Imagine the car is parked anywhere you want to imagine.

We have dripping, wilted car parts. What caused this? Don't say heat. I know it was heat. Heat from what?
 
If you want to proceed scientifically, you must consider all of the evidence in total. Viewed in isolation, many if not most of the phenomena seem reasonable. Taken together though, the picture changes.

We have a whole parking lot full of toasted cars. What do you suppose happened there? Flaming rubble? Where is the rubble? We have cars parked on the street whose engines burst into flames. Why? Flaming rubble again? Tell me specifically what event occurs so that car engines burst into flames, car windows explode from the inside out, rubber tires disappear leaving steel belts behind, and paper is unscathed. Just give me the scenario. Imagine the car is parked anywhere you want to imagine.

We have dripping, wilted car parts. What caused this? Don't say heat. I know it was heat. Heat from what?
Burning stuff.
 
Something BS2468 mentioned reminded me of another vacuuous CTist.

Somewhere ages ago one of them wrote about how it seemed (there's that word again) suspicious that all the steel happened to fall apart in neat handy 30 foot sections small enough to be carried away on trucks.

Idiot, they were carried IN on trucks to begin with. They were then assembled like a huge erector set. When the buildings fell, they failed at the points at which they were bolted or welded together and became once again nice neat little sections, as someone pointed out not too far up this trainwreck of a topic.

Or do these geniuses think that the steel beams were fabricated and hauled to the site in 1,000 foot sections?
 
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rubber tires disappear leaving steel belts behind

Rubber burns and melts. The steel (as in steel belts) does not because the burning rubber does not get hot enough to "vaporize" it, as I'm sure you imagine it does.

Now what the heck about that is so bloody difficult to understand?
 
If you want to proceed scientifically, you must consider all of the evidence in total. Viewed in isolation, many if not most of the phenomena seem reasonable. Taken together though, the picture changes.

So, why don't you apply the same standards to your own pet theories? Let's have a look:

We have a whole parking lot full of toasted cars. ...car engines burst into flames, car windows explode from the inside out, rubber tires disappear leaving steel belts behind, and paper is unscathed. Just give me the scenario. Imagine the car is parked anywhere you want to imagine.

We have dripping, wilted car parts. What caused this? Don't say heat. I know it was heat. Heat from what?

So, on the one hand, we have "dripping wilted" car parts, but it somehow leaves "steel belts" from the tires behind. So, can your Evil Device of Doom(EDD) (of whatever nature it may be), melt steel or not? If it can do both at the same time, how is that possible?

Car windows and engines "burst" and "explode", but the tires just "dissappear"? Why don't the (pressurized) tires explode too?

It can make "rubber tires" disappear, but not burn paper? Again, how is that possible?

The dust which is bellowing from the falling steel cannot be drywall dust, because there is far too much of it, it lasts for far too long, and because it is coming directly out of the steel, and because it expands afterwards.

So, once again, we have EDD disintergrating steel. Why didn't the steel in the cars disintegrate, why did it just "wilt"? Why didn't the steel from the steel belted tires do either?

How the presence of strutural beams would cause round holes in buildings has not been explained, and I fail to see the point. Also, we have round holes in the debris and dust, holes of the same diameter. It looks plainly as though round holes have been drilled, and these have not been explained.

So here we have EDD "drilling" "round" holes in buildings. Why didn't it drill holes in the two towers? Why did they explode outwards instead?

The explanation for the disappearing buildings is that rubble hit them and they went splat. I don't accept this, because there is nothing left of these buildings. Look at WTC4. The north wing of the building is sliced clean off, and nothing remains of the rest. If falling parts of WTC1 or 2 did it, where are those parts? They can't mutually anihiliate, can they?

So, now we're back to EDD making buildings "disappear", oh, expcept for where WTC4 was "sliced clean off". So, now EDD produces nice clean, straight slices, where before it was producing uniform, round holes.

Again, how does one EDD produce such different effects?

WTC3 was mostly intact after WTC2. Then it went away. If WTC1 parts hit it, where are they, and how much of WTC1 did that take (the official story says that these towers stayed within their footprints)? Explain, don't post kittens.

So, now we have EDD needing two shots to take down WTC3, when before it took down eachof the (much larger) towers in one go. So, how powerful is the EDD again? Did they just turn it up to 11 the first time? And why did it leave that one "sliced off" part of WTC4 again?

What about the core of WTC? 700 feet of it stands on its own for seconds, then falls apart, leaving not a trace. The arial shots show no trace of WTC2 core. What happened to it, and why? Even if it was unstable without lateral support, it wouldn't disintegrate, would it? No. It would either fall over, or it would buckle and fall down, not break apart into 30 foot sections. If you say it should break apart into 30 foot sections, please explain why, I don't get it.

So now we're back to disintegrating the steel, or, maybe, just sectioning it into 30-foot lengths. Does EDD disintegrate steel, make it "wilt", or just cut it into handy 30-foot lengths? And where did our round holes get to in all this mess?

You've posited a device of some nature that shows amazingly different effects all at the same time, relying on unknown physics and engineering, which, other than the damge it did, produced no other signs, such as sounds, optical effects, or effects on any people in the area. And you think that's reasonable?

And that's accepting all your assertions at face value, which you know we don't do.

Whereas we can explain everything with the "buildings fell on them" explanation.

I've got to go home now, so I'll leave that last bit as an exercise for the class. If no one else steps up, I'll tackle it later.
 
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If you want to proceed scientifically, you must consider all of the evidence in total. Viewed in isolation, many if not most of the phenomena seem reasonable. Taken together though, the picture changes.

We have a whole parking lot full of toasted cars. What do you suppose happened there? Flaming rubble? Where is the rubble? We have cars parked on the street whose engines burst into flames. Why? Flaming rubble again? Tell me specifically what event occurs so that car engines burst into flames, car windows explode from the inside out, rubber tires disappear leaving steel belts behind, and paper is unscathed. Just give me the scenario. Imagine the car is parked anywhere you want to imagine.

We have dripping, wilted car parts. What caused this? Don't say heat. I know it was heat. Heat from what?

20,000 gallons of burning jet fuel.
 
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We have a whole parking lot full of toasted cars. What do you suppose happened there? Flaming rubble? Where is the rubble? We have cars parked on the street whose engines burst into flames. Why? Flaming rubble again? Tell me specifically what event occurs so that car engines burst into flames, car windows explode from the inside out, rubber tires disappear leaving steel belts behind, and paper is unscathed. Just give me the scenario. Imagine the car is parked anywhere you want to imagine.

When were the pictures taken and when? How do know the cars haven't been moved?
 
Rubber burns and melts. The steel (as in steel belts) does not because the burning rubber does not get hot enough to "vaporize" it, as I'm sure you imagine it does.
file:///Users/acebaker/Desktop/WTCREPORT.pdf
Now what the heck about that is so bloody difficult to understand?

Have you seen the pictures in question? There is no evidence of burned or melted rubber tires. The rims are clean as a whistle. With steel belts around them. This is indeed hard for me to understand, and you have provided nothing which clears it up for me.

Have we any other examples of disappearing rubber tires which leave the steel belts behind?
 
20,000 gallons of burning jet fuel.

I thought the jet fuel was consumed within 5-10 minutes of the fire. Let's forget that. PLease explain how 20,000 gallons of burning jet fuel makes car engines catch fire while leaving paper unburned, and how it makes cars and firetrucks windows blow out from the inside.
 
I thought the jet fuel was consumed within 5-10 minutes of the fire. Let's forget that. PLease explain how 20,000 gallons of burning jet fuel makes car engines catch fire while leaving paper unburned, and how it makes cars and firetrucks windows blow out from the inside.


wow, you just demonstrated that you have no understand of how things can catch fire.

YOU did attend elementary school right?
 
I thought the jet fuel was consumed within 5-10 minutes of the fire. Let's forget that. PLease explain how 20,000 gallons of burning jet fuel makes car engines catch fire while leaving paper unburned, and how it makes cars and firetrucks windows blow out from the inside.
now they blew out from the inside? what evidence do you have that they were blown out at all? the pictures you posted just looked like they were open
 
So, why don't you apply the same standards to your own pet theories? Let's have a look:


So, on the one hand, we have "dripping wilted" car parts, but it somehow leaves "steel belts" from the tires behind. So, can your Evil Device of Doom(EDD) (of whatever nature it may be), melt steel or not? If it can do both at the same time, how is that possible?

I specualte here. Waves are tuned to certain frequencies, which excite the natural resonant frequencies of some materials, not others. Like a microwave oven. The beams are tuned to excite steel and/or concrete. Whether by design or accident, "stray beams" with different frequency hit certain cars. These excited the natural frequency of rubber, and leave the metal.

Car windows and engines "burst" and "explode", but the tires just "dissappear"? Why don't the (pressurized) tires explode too?

maybe they did.

It can make "rubber tires" disappear, but not burn paper? Again, how is that possible?

Different densities, and different resonant frequencies. Same reason a microwave will cook your food and not heat a paper towel.

So, once again, we have EDD disintergrating steel. Why didn't the steel in the cars disintegrate, why did it just "wilt"? Why didn't the steel from the steel belted tires do either?

Only enough time/energy to wilt, not disintegrate. Stray beams. Second part answered above.

So here we have EDD "drilling" "round" holes in buildings. Why didn't it drill holes in the two towers? Why did they explode outwards instead?

Good questions. Why did the towers explode? There clearly had to be some source of tremendous energy, far beyond GPE.

So, now we're back to EDD making buildings "disappear", oh, expcept for where WTC4 was "sliced clean off". So, now EDD produces nice clean, straight slices, where before it was producing uniform, round holes.

Again, how does one EDD produce such different effects?

If you move the beam in a line, it will make a straight-edged cut, ala WTC4. Most of the cuts appear scalloped.

So, now we have EDD needing two shots to take down WTC3, when before it took down eachof the (much larger) towers in one go. So, how powerful is the EDD again? Did they just turn it up to 11 the first time? And why did it leave that one "sliced off" part of WTC4 again?

Good questions.

So now we're back to disintegrating the steel, or, maybe, just sectioning it into 30-foot lengths. Does EDD disintegrate steel, make it "wilt", or just cut it into handy 30-foot lengths? And where did our round holes get to in all this mess?

Speculating, of course. I'm starting to think of this like a focused microwave. Longer than visible light, between infrared and microwaves. It cooks steel from the inside out. The beam is round, a cylinder.

You've posited a device of some nature that shows amazingly different effects all at the same time, relying on unknown physics and engineering, which, other than the damge it did, produced no other signs, such as sounds, optical effects, or effects on any people in the area. And you think that's reasonable?

There were optical effects, the afterglow recorded on many videos. I don't think it behaved differently at the same time.

And that's accepting all your assertions at face value, which you know we don't do.

Whereas we can explain everything with the "buildings fell on them" explanation.

NOt to my satisfaction you can't.
 
BS after reading your last post I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry.

Sorry and I tip my hat to those who have tried to explain things over and over to you but alas it has simply not sunk in.
 
I thought the jet fuel was consumed within 5-10 minutes of the fire. Let's forget that. PLease explain how 20,000 gallons of burning jet fuel makes car engines catch fire while leaving paper unburned, and how it makes cars and firetrucks windows blow out from the inside.

Most of the burning jet fuel came down into the lobby and the street, and combined with other combustible material such as a gas tanks. It took almost two hours to put out the fire caused by the fully-fueled Concorde that crash outside Paris in 2000. And if you look at photographs of that crash, guess what, the hotel didn't totally burn to the ground!

As for your contention that cars and firetrucks had windows that were blow out from the inside....where's your evidence? Do you AT LEAST have credited, dated photographs of these alleged vehicles with no glass on the inside?

I think not.
 
I specualte here. Waves are tuned to certain frequencies, which excite the natural resonant frequencies of some materials, not others. Like a microwave oven.

Well the first part of your speculation is wrong. That isn't how a microwave oven works. Therefore you're starting from a position of ignorance.

Study some physics and accept that your speculation doesn't outweigh scientific consensus on the matter.
 
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Study some physics

TS doesn't even understand fire. According to his understanding of science if I start a fire in my apartment here in NYC and it's not put out, it will eventually spread across the entire country.
 
To be honest, Truthseeker, I couldn't care less if we've explained things to your satisfaction or not. Your opinions are utterly insignificant and don't matter. Nothing you believe will change the world one iota. You aren't about unveil a conspiracy or unmask the secret powers behind 9/11. It doesn't matter how many songs you write or how many links you put on you website, nothing will happen.

The thing is, you see, it isn't about us convincing you; it's about you convincing the rest of the world. If you don't convince enough people, nothing will change.

Even the 9/11 Truth Movement isn't convinced, in its entirety, that there's anything odd to explain in the Reynolds/Wood observations.

How will you feel in twenty years time when everything has carried on pretty much the way it has for the past 20 years and when nobody at all is even slight interested in 9/11 "truth"?
 
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TS doesn't even understand fire. According to his understanding of science if I start a fire in my apartment here in NYC and it's not put out, it will eventually spread across the entire country.
i think his undertsanding is if you douse your apartment in kerosene and set it on fire it will only burn for 5-10 minutes until the kerosene is gone
 
For the record, here are some of the posts in this thread where the "anomalies" in the Reynolds/Wood paper have been explained to TruthSeeker.

He is trying to imply that because he doesn't personally accept these explanations that they haven't been explained and we're just resorting to ad hominem attack on him.

The truth is that he doesn't understand and isn't willing to learn.

If you really are seeking the truth, TruthSeeker, re-read these posts carefully and sign up for some science courses at your local college. Otherwise, you are not qualified to pontificate on this issue.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2017084#post2017084
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2017491#post2017491
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2017813#post2017813
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2018322#post2018322
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2019175#post2019175
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2048157#post2048157
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2070152#post2070152
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2070425#post2070425
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2070782#post2070782
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2070819#post2070819
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2070825#post2070825
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2070882#post2070882
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2071843#post2071843
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2072160#post2072160
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2072189#post2072189
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2072234#post2072234
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2072897#post2072897
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2073857#post2073857
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2074534#post2074534
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2076345#post2076345
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2076360#post2076360
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2076368#post2076368
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2076461#post2076461
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2076533#post2076533
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2077597#post2077597
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2079990#post2079990
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2080456#post2080456
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2080759#post2080759
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2080799#post2080799
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2081582#post2081582
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2084959#post2084959
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2086102#post2086102
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2089350#post2089350
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2089439#post2089439
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2089461#post2089461
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2089719#post2089719
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2090022#post2090022
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2091043#post2091043
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2091086#post2091086
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2091247#post2091247
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2091481#post2091481
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2091728#post2091728
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2095536#post2095536
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2095539#post2095539
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2097212#post2097212
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2097283#post2097283
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2097377#post2097377
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2097399#post2097399
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2097742#post2097742
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2099504#post2099504
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2099598#post2099598
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2099706#post2099706
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2100341#post2100341
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2100460#post2100460
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2100499#post2100499
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2100544#post2100544
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2100561#post2100561
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2100811#post2100811
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2100817#post2100817
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2100826#post2100826
 
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