Speaking in Tongues

[Drewbot]

I witnessed a speaking in tongue incident at church a few years back.

I was curious if there is any inside info on this:

Here is the basic breakdown of what happens;

The minister is speaking about a story in the bible, perhaps starts into a prayer, and in the middle of the congregation(audience) someone will start yelling in what appears to be a foreign language.

Then later someone will say, 'That was Ancient Aramaic! only six people in America can speak that, it must be GOD speaking through her'

Please tell me is:

1. The person planted with the words to say at a cue from the minister?

2. The person speaking gibberish, and the planting is in the people saying that it was an ancient language


Sometimes, the person will Speak in tongues, and then all around them people will start speaking in a gibberishy language, as though they are also being filled with the H.S. and don't want to be left out.

 

[Steve001]

This will tell you a lot
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossolalia

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

You know, it almost puts me in a mind to go start shouting stuff in Klingon at a church, and see if they say it's ancient Aramaic

 

[Trent Wray]

In my personal experience (I've never done it but been around those who have) there are basically two camps:

* those who think they're complete gibberish is an actual angelic language
* those who think they're actually muttering real words of languages that have existed, or a mix of word salad using multiple languages
* those who actually know they're uttering gibberish but speaking forth sounds and gutteral tones reflective of things they're spirits want to say but cannot express into words

I've been around people who speak in tongues softly under their breath as they care for patients in hospitals!

In church services, I seriously doubt most people are "planted". I think there might be a minority that does that, but overall those speaking in tongues aren't expected to speak a language perfectly.

I attended a service a looooong time ago that had a highly controlled group night, where people would speak their gibberish out and then wait for someone to speak forth the interpretation in English. So one person would spout out the tongue-speak .... and then a few minutes later someone would stand up with a "word from the Lord" and that pastor would confirm that was the interpretation of the tongue-speak.

What absolutely boggles my mind is how any person at all can consider this a miracle. In fact, when I've asked certain people who participate in tongues if they've ever experienced or seen miracles, they will almost always say, "What about speaking in tongues? How would you explain that?" as though it were beyond understanding or explanation. But of course there are no blind people who can see, lame who can walk, limbs grown back, etc. ....... just the gibberish speaking.

 

[JWideman]

One of the these days, someone's going to say "Hold on, I speak ancient Aramaic, and that was plain gibberish."

 

[Cainkane1]

I witnessed a speaking in tongue incident at church a few years back.

I was curious if there is any inside info on this:

Here is the basic breakdown of what happens;

The minister is speaking about a story in the bible, perhaps starts into a prayer, and in the middle of the congregation(audience) someone will start yelling in what appears to be a foreign language.

Then later someone will say, 'That was Ancient Aramaic! only six people in America can speak that, it must be GOD speaking through her'

Please tell me is:

1. The person planted with the words to say at a cue from the minister?

2. The person speaking gibberish, and the planting is in the people saying that it was an ancient language


Sometimes, the person will Speak in tongues, and then all around them people will start speaking in a gibberishy language, as though they are also being filled with the H.S. and don't want to be left out.

Number 2. If you had a tape recorder you'd find that most of the gibberish was english or just gobbledegook nonsense. If the person was speaking Aramaic then it was staged.

 

[arthwollipot]

I speak with a little bit of experience in the matter, having spent some time in an Assemblies of God church that put great stock in "speaking in tongues". Don't worry, I got better.

The language that people speak is not ancient Aramaic, or any other human language. It's supposed to be the language that the Angels speak, which can be understood by anyone who has been given the gift of interpretation. They take to heart Joel 2:28: "And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions..." Speaking in tongues is the gift of prophecy - they believe that they are prophesying in the language of the Lord, so that all people may hear the word of the Lord (as in Acts 2).

In reality, it is gibberish.

I attended the church for a couple of months before I was baptised. During that time I saw and heard people speaking in tongues and I came to believe that it was normal and expected from members of the congregation. So when I had the opportunity to be baptised, I came up out of the water speaking in tongues. "Hallelujah!" they cried, "he has been baptised in the Holy Spirit, and in fire (Mat 3:11)!" From that moment I was a part of the in-group.

There is definitely a pressure to conform. When in Rome and all that.

Anyway, the whole idea that it is an "ancient language" is rubbish. Any scholar of Aramaic would be able to tell you that is false.

 

[tsig]

One of the these days, someone's going to say "Hold on, I speak ancient Aramaic, and that was plain gibberish."

But do you speak ancient Aramaic Armenian dialect? No? Then that's what it was. And so it goes and with it the goalposts.

 

[Bikewer]

I have been able to "speak in tongues" with considerable fluency for ages, likely influenced by childhood watching of Sid Ceasar with his ersatz German, French, and so forth. (people would write in to the show and claim they could understand him...)

I can reel out pretty decent sounding German, French, Japanese, and so forth...All with smatterings of real words in those languages and other gibberish that just sort of sounds good. I think almost anyone can do this with a bit of practice.

Most humans have a pretty decent ear for language, and can quickly grasp foreign inflection, cadence, and accent, even if they don't quite understand the words.

I once saw two prominent TV evangelists speaking in tongues to each other....Silliest thing I've ever seen.

 

[tsig]

I speak with a little bit of experience in the matter, having spent some time in an Assemblies of God church that put great stock in "speaking in tongues". Don't worry, I got better.

The language that people speak is not ancient Aramaic, or any other human language. It's supposed to be the language that the Angels speak, which can be understood by anyone who has been given the gift of interpretation. They take to heart Joel 2:28: "And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions..." Speaking in tongues is the gift of prophecy - they believe that they are prophesying in the language of the Lord, so that all people may hear the word of the Lord (as in Acts 2).

In reality, it is gibberish.

I attended the church for a couple of months before I was baptised. During that time I saw and heard people speaking in tongues and I came to believe that it was normal and expected from members of the congregation. So when I had the opportunity to be baptised, I came up out of the water speaking in tongues. "Hallelujah!" they cried, "he has been baptised in the Holy Spirit, and in fire (Mat 3:11)!" From that moment I was a part of the in-group.

There is definitely a pressure to conform. When in Rome and all that.

Anyway, the whole idea that it is an "ancient language" is rubbish. Any scholar of Aramaic would be able to tell you that is false.

It's interesting that speaking in tongues as done in modern churches is the exact opposite of Pentecost where the Apostles spoke in their own tongue and it was understood by others in their own language.

 

[arthwollipot]

It's interesting that speaking in tongues as done in modern churches is the exact opposite of Pentecost where the Apostles spoke in their own tongue and it was understood by others in their own language.

Indeed. The standard apologetic is that the Apostles thought they were speaking in their own language, but in fact were speaking in this language of the angels.

 

[rorylee]

I can speak in tongue, pretty well. Tbh first i heard of it been an ancient language but i spose the thought did lie with me, as the first language. I have only seen one other man speak in tongue and it was before i knew everything i know today. He was helping and guiding me (if you follow my posts, the man who gave me the book by Mary K Baxter: A Divine Revelation of Hell from my old work place and i went to church with him where the lights flickered) through my awaken process. He blessed my old house with oil and spoke in tongue to make sure no evil spirits were coming in.

Now days, i speak in it to freak people out lol and it does always give me a sense of feel with snakes (got one tattooed on my arm called eingana). You can pretty much say any English word you want in tongue by thinking it and it just flows out, or sometimes just complete flowing rubbish (like swearing i guess lol). I haven't bothered to look into more anyway, its just there when needed.

On the churches doing it.. it could be a setup so more people will follow that church and more money will be given, i hate to say that but man are still fallible.

PS: it did help i was born tongue tied and had to have to cut at birth too was and still is a pretty big issue in my family, my mum made sure to tell my x-gf when i didn't like wtf?

 

[arthwollipot]

It's like... there are words of some kind...

 

[Beerina]

It's also possible to speak English gibberish if you are half-asleep. The words make sense, and are in syntactically correct sentences, but they just make no sense as a sentence.

I've been able to duplicate this in myself from time to time, but the window of when I can produce such while realizing it's gibberish is fairly small, just a few seconds.

That's a fascinating state to me because it implies the part of the brain that generates words and syntactically correct sentences is separate from the part that makes the sentences meaningful.


Can't say if there's a legitimate (i.e. non-fraudulent, real phenomenon) way to reproduce unintelligible gibberish.

 

[bluesjnr]

Flehackle meh plubistica. Muchta shebon frethrant wibble wort!

("Tounge" for "Please forgive me. Somebody had to do it!")

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

Well, constructing some gibberish that has the recognizable structure of a language (and optionally even the lexicon of one) is actually a very simple exercise even for a computer. In fact, it's simpler than constructing sentences that make sense and convey a clear meaning. Some exercises based on Markov Chains include Biff, dissociated press and Mark V Shaney (a word play on "Markov chain") on Usenet, and some suspect the poster amanfrommars on the The Register boards may be such a program.

The exercise is of course even simpler for humans who already have the hardware trained and fine-tuned for constructing sentences. The majority of people (but not all by a wide margin either) can construct equal quality gibberish after being exposed to just a 60 second sample to get the idea of what's expected.

 

[Ocelot]

Then later someone will say, 'That was Ancient Aramaic! only six people in America can speak that, it must be GOD speaking through her'

If only 6 people in america speak Ancient Aramaic then we're really lucky that this "someone" was there to recognise it.

 

[rorylee]

Flehackle meh plubistica. Muchta shebon frethrant wibble wort!

("Tounge" for "Please forgive me. Somebody had to do it!")

lol i was just thinking 'ive never been an a grade student on English, so how the hell ami going to spell something in tongue!?!'

 

[Ron Swanson]

I read this thread and the Wiki article ... ummm ... ... how embarrassing for everyone involved!

Kudos to the scientists who could stomach such foolishness long enough to write up a real report on it.

 

[arthwollipot]

I read this thread and the Wiki article ... ummm ... ... how embarrassing for everyone involved!

In context, it's not embarrassing. In fact it's more embarrassing to be in the church and not part of the glossolalic in-group.