Some Trump electors voting illegally

[abaddon]

I must admit I don't understand the entire US Election process

BUT? .. This makes it sound like the voters do not have the last say who is president ... after all this and months of compaining and recounting votes ... a separate body of politicians actually votes for the president??

And can technicallly over turn the election process?

Tell me this is not true![/QUOTE]
Imagine stupid. Now you are there.

Americans like to pretend they have a remotely democratic system. They don't.

Sometime a democrat gets elected and sometimes a republican. It is no way a democracy. The popular vote matters not a whit. It is not a meritocracy, that doesn't matter either. What it really is is a flat out popularity contest.

Personally, in my own domain, political discourse is de riguer when it comes to elections. Not apparently so in America. Here, critiques are rampant, but they are reasoned critiques. In Trumpiverse, critiques are verbotten. This is one of the reasons why the other 95% views Trump as a wingnut. and a dangerous wingnut. It ain't our fault that America put an idiot at the helm, that is on you murcans. Nothing to do with the other 95% of the human race.

Frankly, I cannot see why anyone of any political stripe would tie themselves to such political buffoonery. Democrats are toast. Republicans are toast. The chosen direction is that nobody gets anything and everyone loses.


Tough luck, america. You have fought a bitter fight to make yourself a backwater.

 

[BobTheCoward]

I like this distinction. There's "today," then the background of "today." Now, what are we searching for? The legal definition of "office"? Of "office holder"? Or something else?

Today we are playing Florida law super sleuths.

 

[Minoosh]

An alternative to "winner takes all" would be "winner takes most" - i.e., total electors minus 2 would be assigned proportionally ...

Or, I suppose, they could be assigned by majority vote in each legislative district. The problem with that is gerrymandering. But what's the remedy? Sure, there could be an algorithm applied to maximize competitiveness in each legislative district. Or, Democrats could get better at manipulating district boundaries for their own purposes, somewhat canceling out Republican's skill at manipulating boundaries for their own purposes.

If there were a way to draw boundaries with an absolute minimum of partisan gerrymandering then I suppose I'd be for it. That's a pretty abstract concept, though. If the inner city is the hole in the donut, and the suburbs are the donut, then in very broad terms you've equalized something. But if the hole in the donut is just one district (say, Democratic), with radiating spokes that are all low-population AND primarily Republican, then the urban vote is effectively marginalized.

We're motivated here to find support for our arguments. The public at large, though ... does it matter all that much to them? Perhaps the last presidential election will motivate more people to understand the possible manipulations of the electoral map.

 

[Dumb All Over]

Americans like to pretend they have a remotely democratic system.

Some Americans like to pretend this, not all. Those that pretend this are wrong.

They don't.

Correct. It is a constitutionally limited representative democratic republic. We elect representatives to do our voting for us, therefore not a democracy in the truest sense. It has always been so.

 

[casebro]

Obviously you are wrong, or why would such a no-dual-office even be a req?

I'm all for more scandals, one, because maybe people will wake up and dump the EC system. And two, because it causes Trump to show his egotistical pettiness, something the news media is actually beginning to say out loud.

<SNIP> you can look up how electors are chosen in your state. Hint: NOT by popular election. They are chosen by their PARTY, not office holders at all. The popular elections is actually only to chose which PARTY shall appoint the electors for the state.

The 'dual office holder' thing is non-sequitor, brought up by a CTer. Re-read the thread?

Edited by Locknar: 

SNIPed, breach of rule 12.

 

[BobTheCoward]

<SNIP> you can look up how electors are chosen in your state. Hint: NOT by popular election. They are chosen by their PARTY, not office holders at all. The popular elections is actually only to chose which PARTY shall appoint the electors for the state.

The 'dual office holder' thing is non-sequitor, brought up by a CTer. Re-read the thread?

Edited by Locknar: 

Moderated content removed.

In my state I have a slate of names my vote goes next to.

 

[Minoosh]

Sometime a democrat gets elected and sometimes a republican. It is no way a democracy. The popular vote matters not a whit. It is not a meritocracy, that doesn't matter either. What it really is is a flat out popularity contest.

How can it be a popularity contest if the popular vote doesn't matter?

Personally, in my own domain, political discourse is de riguer when it comes to elections. ... In Trumpiverse, critiques are verbotten.

De rigueur; verboten.

Democrats are toast. Republicans are toast. The chosen direction is that nobody gets anything and everyone loses. Tough luck, america. You have fought a bitter fight to make yourself a backwater.

Maybe the U.S. needs this kind of result to stimulate public discourse. IMO, it will take more than one Trump term to turn the U.S. into a backwater, although in general I agree that he seems poised to take the country in the direction of irrelevancy. Licking Putin's boots doesn't help.

 

[casebro]

After counting all of the electoral votes, the Congressional Joint Committee has just adjourned. Donald J. Trump is officially the next President of the United States.

"Joint Committee", or "A joint session of Congress " of the whole 535? If so, was the vote unanimous?

 

[phiwum]

Would you want to dump the EC system if Hillary had won..

Where were you when the media was bashing Trump from day one?

When will the losers stop whining....

Well, there is indeed a major point here. The single worst candidate in U.S. history has been elected. The single worst candidate. That's a considerable concern, and no I don't think it's a matter of mere opinion. Donald J. Trump is obviously the single worst candidate we have ever seen. Far wost than Hillary. He is a terrible, ignorant, stupid person.

This is honestly a plain statement of fact. Were you a decent conservative, you would agree. If, on the other hand, you are either an unprincipled person or on easily persuaded by a curiously popular *******, then you might disagree.

No decent conservative supports Trump.

 

[Ziggurat]

This is honestly a plain statement of fact. Were you a decent conservative, you would agree.

 

[abaddon]

There's still a space race? What a quaint concept. Oh, and for the record, the US has already elected idiots to the Presidency. One of them is just finishing off his second term. We survived. A little worse for wear though. Fortunately, that idiot's entire 8 year reign will be pretty much expunged by the next idiot in the sequence.

nope. Just the US has so hobbled it's own agency that it is unable to do basic things and must rent space from the russians. They must beg. Am I wrong? Perhaps. Maybe there is an actual; US spacecraft vaguely capable. Surely, there must be? Right? Wrong. there is no US craft currently remotely able to get anyone to the ISS. Thus the US must beg to rent a soyuz seat. I did not do that. I do not like that. I am not happy about that. You americans did that all on your lonesome.

 

[KatieG]

Im not trolling ... just curious .. the wiki article was bit verbose for the time I have right now..I don't know what spotted eagle means
So seriously ... previously elected politicians actually decide who is president? ... NOT the voters?

Why have an election at all then??

Faith Spotted Eagle is a Native American woman who received 1 of Washington state's electoral votes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faith_Spotted_Eagle

 

[BobTheCoward]

nope. Just the US has so hobbled it's own agency that it is unable to do basic things and must rent space from the russians. They must beg. Am I wrong? Perhaps. Maybe there is an actual; US spacecraft vaguely capable. Surely, there must be? Right? Wrong. there is no US craft currently remotely able to get anyone to the ISS. Thus the US must beg to rent a soyuz seat. I did not do that. I do not like that. I am not happy about that. You americans did that all on your lonesome.

Buying a spot is not begging. That is the beauty of money. It has no memory.

 

[Cylinder]

"Joint Committee", or "A joint session of Congress " of the whole 535? If so, was the vote unanimous?

It is a Joint Session of Congress.

There were voice objections from members of the House of Representatives, but no objections from the Senate so there was no debate or vote from either chamber. Rather, the President of the Senate counted the votes and proclaimed the winner.

 

[Ziggurat]

nope. Just the US has so hobbled it's own agency that it is unable to do basic things and must rent space from the russians. They must beg. Am I wrong? Perhaps. Maybe there is an actual; US spacecraft vaguely capable. Surely, there must be? Right? Wrong. there is no US craft currently remotely able to get anyone to the ISS.

There is a US spacecraft that's able to get people to the ISS. It's called the Dragon, by SpaceX. What's lacking isn't capability, but certification.

Thus the US must beg to rent a soyuz seat. I did not do that. I do not like that. I am not happy about that. You americans did that all on your lonesome.

And all of that is the result of decisions made a long time ago, starting in the 1970's. And it's true, the shuttle program has has major problems. What we have been doing lately is quite different, and the results will become apparent soon.

But why the focus on probably the least important aspect of space exploration? Why not pay a little attention to our remarkable successes

 

[Bob001]

.....

If there were a way to draw boundaries with an absolute minimum of partisan gerrymandering then I suppose I'd be for it. That's a pretty abstract concept, though. If the inner city is the hole in the donut, and the suburbs are the donut, then in very broad terms you've equalized something. But if the hole in the donut is just one district (say, Democratic), with radiating spokes that are all low-population AND primarily Republican, then the urban vote is effectively marginalized.
....

A number of states use nonpartisan or bipartisan commissions to draw district boundaries that are fair to all parties. You could certainly divide that donut hole with the rest of the donut, so every wedge would start from the center and include a similar mix of voters. More broadly, lines could be drawn to keep them as compact as possible, consistent with equal population, natural geographical boundaries, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redistricting_commission

What you want to avoid are districts like this:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...s-most-gerrymandered-congressional-districts/

 

[Dumb All Over]

"Joint Committee", or "A joint session of Congress " of the whole 535? If so, was the vote unanimous?

It doesn't matter. Can you say, "President Trump?"

 

[Dumb All Over]

It is a Joint Session of Congress.

There were voice objections from members of the House of Representatives, but no objections from the Senate so there was no debate or vote from either chamber. Rather, the President of the Senate counted the votes and proclaimed the winner.

The objections were not entertained by the Chair (Biden). To be ruled "in order", the objection needed to be submitted to the Chair in writing and required the signatures of at least one Representative and one Senator. Not a single Senator signed any written objection. All voice objections were gaveled down as being out of order by Biden.

 

[BobTheCoward]

The objections were not entertained by the Chair (Biden). To be ruled "in order", the objection needed to be submitted to the Chair in writing and required the signatures of at least one Representative and one Senator. Not a single Senator signed any written objection. All voice objections were gaveled down as being out of order by Biden.

Is there any idea why a senator never signed on for any of it?

 

[Dumb All Over]

Is there any idea why a senator never signed on for any of it?

Probably, but I don't have any idea what that might be. Perhaps they didn't want to look like idiots?