So you're an atheist. Ok, what next?

[FSM]

Kevin Kline?!!?? NO!

 

[schlitt]

And the mascot... is a bull. No b.s., the Schlitz bull! Here:

OK, that's, errr... quite an ad.

Oh well, at least i have an extra t instead of a z, but it really just seems like a plural me.

 

[schlitt]

Kevin Kline?!!?? NO!

Whats wrong with Kevin Kline?

He was funny in fish called wanda.

 

[FSM]

I think Kevin Kline is wonderful... But, But I think that's him doing the effete Robin Hood in the cheezy Shlitz commercial! Wow. When asked, I am sure the pat answer would be IWYINTM. (I was young-I needed the money.)

 

[Tricky]

I think Kevin Kline is wonderful... But, But I think that's him doing the effete Robin Hood in the cheezy Shlitz commercial! Wow. When asked, I am sure the pat answer would be IWYINTM. (I was young-I needed the money.)

I don't remember that (although that may be because they don't market Schlitz much around here). But Klein was perfect as the Pirate King in The Pirates of Pennzance, and he was hilarious in A Fish Called Wanda, In and Out, and my personal favorite, Dave. He also has serious acting chops as he showed in The Ice Storm. Though I didn't see him as Robin Hood, he had to be better than Kevin Cosner.

And he's a liberal, so therefore probably an atheist (my lame attempt to make this post on-topic).

 

[articulett]

Yes... as we all know from the wise Ann Coulter, all liberals are godless heathens. Ergo, I declare this thread "back on topic".

 

[Tricky]

Yes... as we all know from the wise Ann Coulter, all liberals are godless heathens. Ergo, I declare this thread "back on topic".

You think?

 

[danmacduff]

Folks, this is where atheism, taken to its extreme, leads you.

Really, need I say any more?

Where atheism leads is wherever YOU choose to go. We are responsible for our own "meaning." Why would fairy tales be superior to this?

 

[Tricky]

Where atheism leads is wherever YOU choose to go. We are responsible for our own "meaning." Why would fairy tales be superior to this?

The argument, I believe, is that we learn our morality from fairy tales. Even though those fairy tales are written by humans, they are supposedly "inspired humans", who will create a much better morality than we could as individuals.

Or at least, that's the hypothesis.

And welcome to the boards, Dan.

 

[Foster Zygote]

The argument, I believe, is that we learn our morality from fairy tales. Even though those fairy tales are written by humans, they are supposedly "inspired humans", who will create a much better morality than we could as individuals.

They were certainly inspired in Rwanda.

 

[wuschel]

In fact, theism is empty. It doesn't tell you how to live, give you any morality, or fill the aching void in the center of the theist's existence. They may adopt some moral precepts derived from some religion or other, and that's because they can't derive them from 'mere theism'. Theism is ultimately meaningless, a bare assertion that the supernatural exists, and if you're a theist and can't justify the meaning of life based on theism and nothing else, you are just kidding yourself and skipping around the central contradiction of your life: theism has nothing to do with morality or meaning.

Very well put - and worth quoting for the sole reason that indeed I think this is very well put and straight to the point!

 

[Tricky]

Very well put - and worth quoting for the sole reason that indeed I think this is very well put and straight to the point!

There's a good way to tell somebody, "you had an excellent post". It looks like this.

 

[CapelDodger]

Where atheism leads is wherever YOU choose to go.

To a giant, religion is just something else to trample along their chosen path.

We are responsible for our own "meaning." Why would fairy tales be superior to this?

We are giants .

 

[dglas]

There's a good way to tell somebody, "you had an excellent post". It looks like this.
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/helloworld2/buttons/nominate.gif[/qimg]

Win Powerball!!!

 

[Tricky]

Win Powerball!!!

Nominated!
get serious

 

[iamkion132]

I'll toss my hat into the ring. This is my first post here but I hope to at least add something to this forum. A first thread usually doesn't do that, but hopefully my future post will.

I've been an atheist for about 4 years now, and honestly my life hasn't changed all that much. I went on two mission trips after I became an atheist because I like(d) to help people. I still continue to help people, not because I am forced to in anyway or to gain favor, but because I want to. It's kind of cool to see the surprise on people's faces when you do random acts of kindness. In my mind, if someone where to ask me why, I can give an honest answer "because I can."

Atheism isn't a belief system. There is nothing that defines me as an atheist when it comes to beliefs. I'll differ from anyone else who defines themselves as an atheist, unless they are an Atheist, which there is a small difference compared to even just an atheist. An Atheist is someone who has created a belief system out of the fact that they don't believe in a theistic god. Most tend to be humanist and I am to a point one as well. I guess the only value I see is the value of human life and the improvement of it without being forced to do it. I don't see it that way as values are something that you have to think about and identify where it comes from. I just want to do good without having to having a possible alternate motive.

Why create an organization that caters to only one belief system? Why can't I just set one up that strives to help everyone regardless of what they may believe? There are plenty of good organizations that are out there that do good. I don't really care they are doing it more out of a religious nature, so long as anyone can be helped.

I may have repeated myself once or twice, but I hope this shows why I am an atheist and what I do. Doing good should come from within, not from without.

 

[joobz]

Hmm... that explains the storm cloud circling the patio all day.

Lesson to the kids out there -- God walks into a bar: Coors Lite? Schlitz Malt?? Stella Artois??? Three Floyds Oak Aged Dark Lord Russian Imperial Stout.

Three Floyds? Are you from the region?

 

[Foster Zygote]

I'll toss my hat into the ring. This is my first post here but I hope to at least add something to this forum. A first thread usually doesn't do that, but hopefully my future post will.

I've been an atheist for about 4 years now, and honestly my life hasn't changed all that much. I went on two mission trips after I became an atheist because I like(d) to help people. I still continue to help people, not because I am forced to in anyway or to gain favor, but because I want to. It's kind of cool to see the surprise on people's faces when you do random acts of kindness. In my mind, if someone where to ask me why, I can give an honest answer "because I can."

Atheism isn't a belief system. There is nothing that defines me as an atheist when it comes to beliefs. I'll differ from anyone else who defines themselves as an atheist, unless they are an Atheist, which there is a small difference compared to even just an atheist. An Atheist is someone who has created a belief system out of the fact that they don't believe in a theistic god. Most tend to be humanist and I am to a point one as well. I guess the only value I see is the value of human life and the improvement of it without being forced to do it. I don't see it that way as values are something that you have to think about and identify where it comes from. I just want to do good without having to having a possible alternate motive.

Why create an organization that caters to only one belief system? Why can't I just set one up that strives to help everyone regardless of what they may believe? There are plenty of good organizations that are out there that do good. I don't really care they are doing it more out of a religious nature, so long as anyone can be helped.

I may have repeated myself once or twice, but I hope this shows why I am an atheist and what I do. Doing good should come from within, not from without.

A fine first post, and welcome to the forum.

 

[articulett]

I think about that as an atheist. I get a big kick out of other peoples' delight, and I feel invigorated if I helped the process. Maybe it's empathy... I feel happy when I hear the thump, thump, thump of my dogs' wagging tail or the purr of a cat. I do good things probably because it makes me feel good.

I can't bear witness to anguish or suffering without feeling it on some level myself. I think humans are wired to share in the joys and sorrows of other sentient beings, and religion is just one of the many stories people tell themselves about why they do what they do. Feelings are often primal and instinctive and we don't necessarily know why we feel them or how to control them. I think stories of gods and demons and so forth were the best explanations we could come up with in the past when trying to use language to make sense of emotions and share that information with others.

 

[dglas]

I'll toss my hat into the ring. This is my first post here but I hope to at least add something to this forum. A first thread usually doesn't do that, but hopefully my future post will.

I've been an atheist for about 4 years now, and honestly my life hasn't changed all that much. I went on two mission trips after I became an atheist because I like(d) to help people. I still continue to help people, not because I am forced to in anyway or to gain favor, but because I want to. It's kind of cool to see the surprise on people's faces when you do random acts of kindness. In my mind, if someone where to ask me why, I can give an honest answer "because I can."

Atheism isn't a belief system. There is nothing that defines me as an atheist when it comes to beliefs. I'll differ from anyone else who defines themselves as an atheist, unless they are an Atheist, which there is a small difference compared to even just an atheist. An Atheist is someone who has created a belief system out of the fact that they don't believe in a theistic god. Most tend to be humanist and I am to a point one as well. I guess the only value I see is the value of human life and the improvement of it without being forced to do it. I don't see it that way as values are something that you have to think about and identify where it comes from. I just want to do good without having to having a possible alternate motive.

Why create an organization that caters to only one belief system? Why can't I just set one up that strives to help everyone regardless of what they may believe? There are plenty of good organizations that are out there that do good. I don't really care they are doing it more out of a religious nature, so long as anyone can be helped.

I may have repeated myself once or twice, but I hope this shows why I am an atheist and what I do. Doing good should come from within, not from without.

Sigh. In a perfect world, yes. But this isn't a perfect world.

Your hidden premises are:

(1) Beliefs are neutral and mind their own business. The dark ages put paid to that assumption. Most belief systems, it seems, are verelse; they simply do not and cannot play well with others. History bears out that when the pen fails, the sword is wielded. The modern western world is based on the idea of growth and change. Hence, our more aggressive belief systems are being systematically neutered in order to allow for change and growth. The alternative, as history bears out, is stagnation and eternal recapitulation to Truth.

And this, by the way, is what separates the vibrant, dynamic modern world from the stagnant, maladaptive dark ages. It is a belief system based on promoting diversity of thought. Wow! What an incredibly powerful concept!

(2) Beliefs are harmless. Here's a rather unpleasant fact of life: two thousand pounds of onrushing plastic and steel doesn't care how one feels about being run down. The ground one is plummeting toward cares not at all what one believes about it. One has to account for it; it will not account for one, no matter what one believes.

(3) Beliefs are private artifacts. Simple fact of human life #1: we are social critters. In order to try to protect beliefs from critical examination, a wholesale retreat from reality has been underway for some time, but it is a laughable enterprise primarily because we are social critters. What is the meaning, in a social context, of a belief if it is entirely privately held or if it is never acted upon? I suppose one would say it means that person is divorcing himself from the rest of humanity. If one even so much as expresses a belief, one is performing a public act. And that's why deism is just the same as theism; it is not passive, even if it pretends to be; it is a "passive-aggressive" promotion of mystical-magical-think. We are all familiar with the power of symbols and the power of role-models. That these things have power proves that there are no passive beliefs.

Put these three together and you have a recipe for disaster on the grandest and most tragic of scales.

Now, I'm am most definitely not saying that we should hold our beliefs in private and never express them - that we relegate beliefs to an entirely private realm. That's the short route to madness. Private realms are entirely without checks or balances (check out posts by DavidJayJordan if you need a good example), just as beliefs (as people currently perceive of them) are. If we do not share and negotiate ideas, if we treat them as some kind of Truth (capital T), if we design them as uncontestable, unverifiable and unrefutable, then these ideas are so divorced from reality as to be entirely without referent.

On top of that, entirely privately held beliefs, never expressed, do not bring anything to the negotiating table for the benefit of others. Yes, you are reading this right: passively held, never expressed beliefs are not a Good Thing(TM), even if they are comfy and immune to critique.

Most modern religion tries to depict itself as passive (internally held), tolerant of diversity, and adaptive. It is none of the above, and its history proves it, including modern history. The only reason we aren't in the grip of an iron fist is we have locked the weapons away from them. We must never, ever again let them convince us they should have the key. Their history is crystal clear. It could be a few thousand lives in a commercial center or 30+ generations of ordinary human lives struggling under the yoke of stagnation and superstition that are at stake.

We must never let it happen again.


But, we must...

Win Powerball!!!