So Will 2012 Be Just Another Year?

I'm not sure that calling an admin a moron is likely to increase anyone's confidence in your predictions.

The Derrick Jensen quote, except for the two sentences referring to "spirit", is how most sceptics live their entire lives; you are hardly telling us anything new.

Why don't you lay out, with evidence, what you believe is going on in the world right now and why this is going to lead to this crash which you state will occur by 2015 at the latest?
 
Humes fork said:
The reason you are not succeeding here is, as has previously been stated, that you don't present any evidence for your assertions.
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Erm.... http://crisisofcivilization.com/

?

You seem to expect that we should accept your (extraordinary) claims on face value.
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What do you mean by "extra-ordinary"?

The only claims I am asking anybody to accept are those about the current state of industrialised civilisation and what is happening in the world right now, and my views on this are shared by an increasing amount of very intelligent, well-educated people. They are very important historically, but there's nothing supernatural about them. I'm afraid the problems discussed in the documentary linked to above are rather more mundane than that, in the original sense of that word.

I think the members on that forum and those here would not see eye to eye on many things.
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Of course they wouldn't. That's not news to anybody who knows anything about my posting history on this and other boards. However, if they don't see eye to eye with me about the things I am talking about in this thread, then it better not be because they're not listening/thinking about it properly because they've already decided that everything I say should be ignored.

You must play the ball, not the man. Darat has never quite grasped this idea, regardless of how many times it has been explained to him both by me and by other moderators.

As for anarcho-primitivism, do you even know what you are promoting?
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I'm not promoting anarcho-primitivism. I do not have the blueprints for a perfect civilisation, nor do I know how this crisis is going to play out (i.e. what is going to end up being possible.) All I am trying to do is raise people's awareness of what is going on in the world right now, and why.
 
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Agatha said:
I'm not sure that calling an admin a moron is likely to increase anyone's confidence in your predictions.
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Edited by Locknar: 
Edited, breach of rule 11.


The Derrick Jensen quote, except for the two sentences referring to "spirit", is how most sceptics live their entire lives; you are hardly telling us anything new.
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I'm telling you something new if this thread continues to be a discussion about who is right or wrong about metaphysics and epistemology rather than what is happening in the real world in 2012. What I'm telling you is that you are obsessing over something which is a mere side-show, just as the main act is getting going.

Why don't you lay out, with evidence, what you believe is going on in the world right now and why this is going to lead to this crash which you state will occur by 2015 at the latest?
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I can't do better than post the link to the above documentary, which answers your question pretty damned perfectly. I agree with almost everything the author/presenter says. It can't explain it better than he does.

I think 2015 at the latest because of the way the debts/QE is stacking up. I think that if we keep going as we are, the numbers by that time start to becoming mind-boggling and the system will have to crash. However, I strongly suspect we'll run into political problems which bring it down long before then. 2015 is about as long as it will be possible to "kick the can" down the road with respect to the $US, but exactly what happens is going to depend on who wins the election in November.
 
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No one can possibly know what the future holds with the level of detail and precision expected in the OP and speculated on by UndercoverElephant. Maybe world economies and civilization itself will collapse this year, maybe they won't. Doomsayers have portended an end to the world as we know it for millennia, for any number of reasons, and it hasn't happened yet. There's nothing I can about it but live my life, moment by moment.
 
Vortigern99 said:
No one can possibly know what the future holds with the level of detail and precision expected in the OP and speculated on by UndercoverElephant. Maybe world economies and civilization itself will collapse this year, maybe they won't. Doomsayers have portended an end to the world as we know it for millennia, for any number of reasons, and it hasn't happened yet. There's nothing I can about it but live my life, moment by moment.
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Sounds like good advice to me. :)
 
UndercoverElephant said:
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Moderated content removed.




I'm telling you something new if this thread continues to be a discussion about who is right or wrong about metaphysics and epistemology rather than what is happening in the real world in 2012. What I'm telling you is that you are obsessing over something which is a mere side-show, just as the main act is getting going.



I can't do better than post the link to the above documentary, which answers your question pretty damned perfectly. I agree with almost everything the author/presenter says. It can't explain it better than he does.

I think 2015 at the latest because of the way the debts/QE is stacking up. I think that if we keep going as we are, the numbers by that time start to becoming mind-boggling and the system will have to crash. However, I strongly suspect we'll run into political problems which bring it down long before then. 2015 is about as long as it will be possible to "kick the can" down the road with respect to the $US, but exactly what happens is going to depend on who wins the election in November.
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Somebody seems to be interested in discussing you.
 
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tsig said:
Somebody seems to be interested in discussing you.
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Yep, but it isn't me. This time, it's you.

If you think that any usage of the word "I" in dialogue indicates some sort of self-obsession, may I politely suggest you might have some sort of learning difficulties yourself? I mean...do the words "I agree" indicate that you want to talk about yourself? How else might one express an opinion, unless one claims one's opinion is incontrovertible fact (as is common around here, I know...)?

I have consistently tried to get this thread back to a discussion about what is happening in 2012, and how ordinary it is, or otherwise. Other people have consistently tried to turn it into "whose belief system is right and whose is wrong" discussion, where they can talk about how wrong the prophecies are, or how wrong I was when talking about the future ten years ago.

The level of debate I encounter on this board is consistently really sad. It ought to be the sort of place that attracts intelligent, thoughtful people. In reality it attracts people who have serious problems articulating any idea beyond "Prove it!" and "Dang nasty woo-woo, we don't likes it!"
 
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It seems quite unusual in terms of weather too. Here in MN, we were practically robbed of winter. And it's beginning to look as though we might get robbed of spring too.

Anyway, glad to see you are still on the web UE. :)
 
UndercoverElephant said:
The level of debate I encounter on this board is consistently really sad. It ought to be the sort of place that attracts intelligent, thoughtful people.
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The problem is that you have not met any intelligent, thoughtful people before. We are a new experience for you.
 
UndercoverElephant said:
OK, let's try a little experiment.

I think most of the people posting in this thread are very ignorant about what is currently happening in the world (forget the prophecies, this is about what is ALREADY happening).

The experiment is to see whether those people are congenitally stupid, educationally-damaged by their (American?) education, or actually capable of learning something.

Here is a documentary which explains very clearly what you've not been able to understand from my posts.

http://crisisofcivilization.com/

Also, if you feel like educating yourselves about the difference in the quality of the debate at this here US-style "skeptics" forum, and its counterpart in Europe, have a look at the responses to a thread about exactly the same topic there:

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/news-politics/crisis-of-civilisation-t30098.html

On this board, I'm being ridiculed by a bunch of people with an apparent average IQ of about 80. On the ratskep, where there are almost no Americans posting, there is an extremely intelligent discussion taking place.

God help the United States. You need it. :(
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All I see is someone being buthurted because he´s not being taken seriously.
 
Johny2x4 said:
All I see is someone being buthurted because he´s not being taken seriously.
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A little evidence from him would help. We're all doomed is not good enough. A clear description of what would replace the present system would be welcome. Would it involve barter?
 
UndercoverElephant said:
You mean this:



has "failed"?
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Where is your evidence of non-failure? My father's generation went through a lot worse during WWII.

''Most of what I've been talking about in this thread is based on science''

What science would this be?
 
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''The prophecy wasn't about 2007 - it was about 2012. What I predicted would happen between 2002 and 2012 was based on my own intepretation of what I expected to happen in 2012 - namely that the old world order would collapse and be replaced with a new one. This now appears to be happening. Now...you might want to deny that current events look like the beginning of the collapse of the existing world order but that is very much a matter of opinion. You don't have to be cruising the new-age backwaters of the internet to find predictions of a catastrophic end to the world as we currently know it. You just have to turn on Bloomberg television. ''

What you expected to happen in 2012 hasn't happened.
 
UndercoverElephant said:
Yep, but it isn't me. This time, it's you.

If you think that any usage of the word "I" in dialogue indicates some sort of self-obsession, may I politely suggest you might have some sort of learning difficulties yourself? I mean...do the words "I agree" indicate that you want to talk about yourself? How else might one express an opinion, unless one claims one's opinion is incontrovertible fact (as is common around here, I know...)?

I have consistently tried to get this thread back to a discussion about what is happening in 2012, and how ordinary it is, or otherwise. Other people have consistently tried to turn it into "whose belief system is right and whose is wrong" discussion, where they can talk about how wrong the prophecies are, or how wrong I was when talking about the future ten years ago.

The level of debate I encounter on this board is consistently really sad. It ought to be the sort of place that attracts intelligent, thoughtful people. In reality it attracts people who have serious problems articulating any idea beyond "Prove it!" and "Dang nasty woo-woo, we don't likes it!"
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Yes, providing evidence to back up your claim is really an intolerable burden.
 
tsig said:
Yes, providing evidence to back up your claim is really an intolerable burden.
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It's such a sad thing, asking for evidence. What a pathetic bunch we are. Let's all order our hair shirts and join UE.
 
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