So Why Is The Gospel Still An Offense?

[Ladewig]

I
And this is baiting. I think someone is just amusing themselves in creating a vileness in the name of Jesus. Wouldn't be that hard to do.

Four years is a long time to entertain oneself as a troll. I think she really believes the damnable and offensive nonsense she posts

 

[supercorgi]

If, for the sake of argument, we accept your hypothesis, then either a) Christians would be immune to depression, or b) Christians would be the only people to commit suicide (since Satan surely would only target those who are saved, and not those who are already damned by their belief in the wrong religion).

Good point. Why would Satan want to prematurely off me since I'm going to be living in his neck of the woods eventually anyway? In addition, he'd loose an effective minion on the surface way too soon.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.

I guess Moses must have been an early nerd. I have co-worker who can live on mars bars and coca cola for longer than 40 days. No bread or water though

 

[Fiona]

WITNESS TO OTHERS—share your faith in Jesus Christ with others. Pray that the Lord will reveal how you should witness and when (Mark 16:15).

Well Kathy it seems the lord did not answer your prayer much earlier in the thread. And it certainly seems he hasn't answered this one either. Tell you what, while you are waiting how about applying your mind to the question of how and when you should witness? Do you think the time is now and the place is here, if the assumption is that you would like to make some converts? Do you think that making very unloving statements which hurt people is the answer to the question how?

 

[jmcvann]

Is it the message of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross that you find offensive?

(snip)

Jesus was the only sinless being who ever lived.

(Sorry...I hate to come late to the party and possibly repeat what others have said. But...)

This is a big part of what I find offensive. "...the only sinless being..." So, you believe that all 1-year-olds (to pick a random age) who die are sinners. I cannot fathom how an infant can sin. You, on the other hand, apparently believe in "original sin." To subscribe to your religion requires a belief that people are innately bad. What a horrible, offensive belief system.

First of all how can a person not beleive in heaven or hell?

It's quite easy, actually.

 

[politas]

Good point. Why would Satan want to prematurely off me since I'm going to be living in his neck of the woods eventually anyway? In addition, he'd lose an effective minion on the surface way too soon.

Well, obviously, Satan has to be even stupider than Christianity, otherwise he wouldn't have fallen.

Come on, you aren't really expecting Christian theology to make sense, are you?

 

[indubitably.rick]

Oh please people use mental illness for an excuse all the time. People are in a spiritual battle which has something to do with our mental challenges. Tell me do they have a happy pill for someone who is suicidal yet? If this person had God he would have had hope for his problems knowing eventually everything would be fine instead of freaking out and pulling the trigger.

And no I was certainly not lied to. We live in the mountains and there is a lot of people involved in the occult doing stupid rituals and stuff. How can you even think I was lied to about something so horrible? There is so much wierd stuff going on out there everyone better be on their guard.

A woman approached me while I was at the store one day and introduced herself as a paranoid schizophrenic, and went on to explain that she had tried psychiatry to no avail and through the grace of jesus she was able to overcome her ailment. However, it was intuitively obvious that she should have invested more time with the psychiatrist as she had clearly overcome nothing.

 

[supercorgi]

Well, obviously, Satan has to be even stupider than Christianity, otherwise he wouldn't have fallen.

Come on, you aren't really expecting Christian theology to make sense, are you?

Of course not! But they obviously think it does. A full round of irrationality on me! Time to party!

 

[Egil]

Come on, you aren't really expecting Christian theology to make sense, are you?

I don't care about sense. If it doesn't make sense but is true?

Lots of things that do not make sense are true.

I just wish it wasn't a bunch of contradictions wrapped in an enigma stowed in a mystery.

I wish it didn't require a suspension of disbelief, reason or compassion to believe in.

 

[arthwollipot]

Lots of things that do not make sense are true.

Yes, but even more things that do not make sense are untrue.

 

[proudnonbbeliever]

KK: Okay well what about suicides? Do you really think people do that on their own without help? I believe suicide itself is very strong evidence of we human beings have a very real enemy who wants to not only kill us but rip us off of a good eternity.

Psychology and neurobiology has shown that suicide is most likely due to genetic defeats, resulting in errors regarding neurotransmitter production and uptake. These affect moods, bahaviour and can cause delusions and hallucinations. As i have bipolar disorder and epilepsy i can state as a fact that i have received absolutely no benefit from any religious activity performed for my benefit. What has helped is medication, developed by chemistry, science, evidence based medicine.

Believing something does not make it evidence. Empirical data is evidence.

I just talked to someone today who told me 2 weeks ago he had a friend he grew up with in town that committed suicide after he started believing in Satan. He went as far to join some stupid satanic cult and before you knew it he was dead. How do you explain that?

I explain that as hearsay, no proof of event happening. If it was true i would not be able to say as i am not a psychologist and i still have no evidence to judge from.

KK- I find your statements personally offensive and a demonstration of your desire to explain anything with paranormal explations rather than using your brain, thinking critically, and arriving at a logical outcome.


You do seem to enjoy bathing in ignorance.

 

[SpuriusMaximus]

I just talked to someone today who told me 2 weeks ago he had a friend he grew up with in town that committed suicide after he started believing in Satan. He went as far to join some stupid satanic cult and before you knew it he was dead. How do you explain that?

Just to address that too:

1. You're commiting the Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc (X happened after Y, therefore X happened because Y) fallacy.

It's entirely possible and probable that something else triggered both. E.g., schizophrenia would be prime suspect. E.g., maybe he was harrassed by his fundie "friends" to the point where it caused both his theatrical pretending to be a "satanist" to troll them, and then his death. Etc.

2. I wouldn't really trust a fundie's judgment of whether someone's a satanist. Bast knows that even playing D&D or reading Harry Potter or listening to heavy-metal/emo/goth music or wearing some t-shirts, can get some of the... intellectual proletariat to label you as a satan worshipper.

Heck, you just judged some people as Satan's minions for just committing suicide. You know, not based on actual evidence that any kind of worship was involved, but just post-hoc rationalization.

So especially since, as was said, there is no satanist cult that actually worships satan, I'd take your friend's statement there as rather... inconclusive.

3. (Or maybe 1.B.)

If you want to guess blame, fine, let's play that. Could it be that it was his being falsely labeled as a satanist, and harrassed for that by fundies, which ultimately caused his suicide?

What if he was a little depressed and just needed support? Harrassment, accusations, and blaming the victim (e.g., you're to blame for having those problems, 'cause you don't bleat for Jesus like the rest of us) can easily push someone over the edge, if they're already in a very bad mood.

So maybe, just maybe, it wasn't Satan who's to blame for that guy's death, but the lot of you fundies there. Maybe his blood is on your hands after all.

 

[Belz...]

Okay well what about suicides? Do you really think people do that on their own without help?

Yes, unless you suddenly want to deny the existence of free will. You ARE a Christian, right ?

 

[Holler Hoojer]

Actually it's from the second set of Ten Commandments that Moses brought down from the mountain:



Seeing as how the first Ten Commandments got all busted when Moses threw a hissy-fit and ended up locked in the Ark of the Covenant, all we have to go on is the second set of Ten commandments:

Silly Boy! A god capable of designing humans could surely have designed a stereo-lithography machine. "Drat, Moses! Next time, I'm taking this out of your bonus. OK, open file..yep, that's it. OK, print. Grab it on your way down the mountain."

 

[Mr Clingford]

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy
Okay well what about suicides? Do you really think people do that on their own without help?

Yes, unless you suddenly want to deny the existence of free will. You ARE a Christian, right ?

Hmm, that doesn't necessarily follow;the argument would be that one can be influenced by others to take a course of action and that influence doesn't force one to act.

 

[Madalch]

...Moses threw a hissy-fit and ended up locked in the Ark of the Covenant...

I'm sorry I missed this part of the story.

 

[I Ratant]

Originally Posted by kurious_kathy
Okay well what about suicides? Do you really think people do that on their own without help?

Hmm, that doesn't necessarily follow;the argument would be that one can be influenced by others to take a course of action and that influence doesn't force one to act.

.
Yes.
No one make you do what you don't want to do.

 

[dlorde]

... You've taken that passage and perverted it's meaning beyond recognition. ...

Isn't this the essence of organised religion?

 

[Nogbad]

Isn't this the essence of organised religion?

It is de rigour for the more interesting ones

 

[Minarvia]

I wonder where KK is. I had expected her to return to this thread by now. Maybe she's reading the book in the "book challenge thread?"