So what form does the resistance take?

Emily's Cat said:
I feel like I've heard this before... You know, what with republicans simultaneously being super duper dumb and ineffective and also criminal masterminds with a massive conspiracy to destroy democracy and install a dictator?

At the end of the day, partisans are irrational.
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It's so cute when hard core rightwingers try to pretend they aren't partisan.
 
P.J. Denyer said:
I think it's a belief that the rule of law still exists in your country and documenting unlawful behaviour will lead to remedial action. If that's not the case then all you're left with is using your admittedly impressive arsenal of weapons to kill each other with until the side left with a few survivors gets to declare itself winner and.... Okay, yay you.
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It's also the knowledge that the fascists want the protesters to resort to violence, so they'll have an excuse to crack down even harder and really start filling those camps.
 
theprestige said:
For those that have lost their place in the conversation, I'm talking specifically about this form of "resistance":
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For those of us paying attention from the beginning, those are the exact activities being engaged in by the protestors who are being tear-gassed, peppered-sprayed, harassed, detained, arrested, shot, and killed.
 
theprestige said:
I'm pretty sure not everything ICE is doing is legal.
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In the same way that not everything police do is legal, sure. But the majority of what they're currently doing is legal, and it's their job. Of course we should take steps to address the illegal things and prevent them from happening, but we should still recognize that the overwhelming majority of it is the exact same thing they've done under different administrations.
theprestige said:
Also, I have a lot of respect for resistance in the form of civil disobedience. ICE having to arrest a dozen passively-obstructing bystanders every time they try to arrest an illegal, things will get very interesting very fast. ICE having to ignore a dozen passive bystanders, not so much.
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I get civil disobedience. But I end up stuck when the disobedience is taking the form of actively obstructing law enforcement. If this were police doing their job to apprehend a suspect in a criminal investigation, I can't imagine so many people would be sanguine about organized groups of people assisting the criminals in evading the cops. And that's what's happening here - it's not just people protesting ICE, it's people actively and intentionally helping illegal immigrants evade ICE. And that's before you add in the vandalism, harassment, and intent to doxx agents and their families.
 
theprestige said:
For those that have lost their place in the conversation, I'm talking specifically about this form of "resistance":
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Exactly what is wrong with alerting the community and being present to protest when ICE is actively abusing people? You seem to be under the very mistaken impression that this is the only form of resistance. It very much is not. But it is also a necessary part of resistance.

You hear three sharp blasts on a whistle, you get your shoes on and you get out there with your camera and your voice and you do something. When ICE arrives and people start pouring out of the houses and onto the streets, shouting and forming lines, you bet they're going to get a message.

I'll also add something else. Go buy a whistle. That way, if you see something happening, you can alert the community yourself. And if you hear someone else blow their whistle, you repeat the call. Spread it wide. The more people turn out to protest, the stronger the message will be.
 
theprestige said:
"When they came for the Jews, I did nothing, because I'll be damned if I put my life on the line for them."

- Niemoller, probably

If you won't act because you're afraid of the government crackdown, then the time for resistance has already passed you by.
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I dunno buddy... are you *trying* to start a civil war? Or are you just hassling performative activists for their toothless and weak-willed virtue signaling here?

Because I'd much rather NOT have a civil war.
 
plague311 said:
I can't see posts by certain people, but I remember this conversation once I followed the link. I said something back then that's equally as relevant now. "Morals go out the window when it's convenient" and that sums up the right-wing in general. There is no consistency at all in their positions. If they do it, it's fine. If "the left" does it, it's the end of the world. Cops literally died on J6, and milquetoast criticism was the best we got from theprestige, emily's cat (I know she's not a rightie, she's a centr...lol I couldn't say it with a straight face) but now that an ICE officer got barely nudged by a car they're all up in arms.
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Jesus wept.

The false equivalence is frustrating. Yes, a few cops that were involved on Jan 6 died shortly thereafter... but you present it with the implication that those cops were killed by rioters, which is not the case. the very best you can get is that one of them *might* have had a stroke from a pre-existing condition that was exacerbated by stress from Jan 6, and a couple of others committed suicide that *might* have been because of angst or depression worsened by Jan 6.

I'm not up in arms about an ICE agent getting bumped by a car. The person who bumped the agent was an idiot who ought to have known better and had no business being there in the first place... but the agent way overreacted and should face serious consequences for it.

I am, however, really ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ fed up with self-proclaimed social justice activists prioritizing criminals over innocent civilians and screwing it up in their zeal to force their narrative into existence. It's agitprop writ large.
 
Emily's Cat said:
In the same way that not everything police do is legal, sure. But the majority of what they're currently doing is legal, and it's their job. Of course we should take steps to address the illegal things and prevent them from happening, but we should still recognize that the overwhelming majority of it is the exact same thing they've done under different administrations.

I get civil disobedience. But I end up stuck when the disobedience is taking the form of actively obstructing law enforcement. If this were police doing their job to apprehend a suspect in a criminal investigation, I can't imagine so many people would be sanguine about organized groups of people assisting the criminals in evading the cops. And that's what's happening here - it's not just people protesting ICE, it's people actively and intentionally helping illegal immigrants evade ICE. And that's before you add in the vandalism, harassment, and intent to doxx agents and their families.
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I'm not necessarily sanguine about it, but the way I see it is this: It is honorable and respectable, for people who profess to believe a thing strongly, to stand on the courage of their convictions, and take a stand against the injustice they perceive. I may not agree that ICE should be obstructed, but I wholeheartedly believe that if you think ICE should be obstructed, then you should certainly obstruct them.
 
Emily's Cat said:
I dunno buddy... are you *trying* to start a civil war? Or are you just hassling performative activists for their toothless and weak-willed virtue signaling here?

Because I'd much rather NOT have a civil war.
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I'm not trying to start a civil war. I'd prefer not to have one. But I'm not just hassling the performatives. I honestly wish they would perform, if that's what they say is necessary. Either quit it with the revolutionary rhetoric, or get on with the ◊◊◊◊◊◊◊ revolution already.
 
Emily's Cat said:
It's so cute when progressives decide that anyone to the right of Mao is a "hard core rightwinger".
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You perpetuated far-right lies about the capitol attack and got called out on it. And now you're doing the whole "anyone even a tiny bit to the right is far-right to you guys" line, which is also far-right mythology. You appear to be so deep in a right-wing echo chamber that you've lost sight of the center that you mistakenly believe yourself to inhabit. If you don't want to be treated like a clown, don't act like one.
 
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