So what are we supposed to believe?

[casebro]

SETI is intimately involved with signal fidelity. Anything that advances your ability to detect a signal at a lower energy level or in a noisier background also increases your ability to broadcast and receive signals. This is also related to things like storage on magnetic media.

But you stopped short of telling us about any particular progress that SETI has made in those fields. Possible, sure. Actual?

 

[Pixel42]

The idea of a single habitable zone in each system is surely somewhat outdated. There are now several candidates sites for life in the solar system that are outside the original supposed HZ, eg some of the moons of Saturn and Jupiter.

 

[MG1962]

It looks like around 1.7 Earth masses, you start forming gas dwarf planets.

The outer edge of the zone is about Mars. To go larger than this you have to be out farther and then the planet starts holding onto gas. In other words, it looks like anything large enough at the orbit of the asteroid belt would become a mini-Neptune. The number may not be exact but I'm comfortable saying that anything over 2 Earth masses won't have life.

Sure I get that, but in terms of mass, I would suggest location is a stronger driver than mass in the viability of a planet (up to a point) I would even argue that density assuming a thicker atmosphere could be a positive for emerging life rather than a negative

 

[Cainkane1]

I believe that this is another hit and run thread. I believe that we will never hear from the OP ever again. I believe that the title is based on stupidity, ignorance and prejudice. I believe that he this thread will still receive many responses.

I TRULY believe that the OP of this thread is a troll

I'm not a troll. I have read a science report that said that astromomers observing the universe seem to be of the opinion that there are no planets inhabited by a civilization. ON another website scientists are making the statement that there my be as much as eleven billion planets in the goldilocks zone the implication being that these planets may have life.

To be a troll you have to have contributed nothing. I have posted many articles and posed man questions.

 

[barehl]

But you stopped short of telling us about any particular progress that SETI has made in those fields. Possible, sure. Actual?

I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you asking me to prove that the technology that SETI uses everyday actually exists? They've been at this awhile now; I can assure you that things have advanced since they started. This is like asking me to prove that Linux is more sophisticated than the first version of Unix.

 

[Cainkane1]

Which would quickly be supplanted by porn and reality TV shows

I seriously doubt that watching aliens go through their form of reproduction would be very sexually stimualting.

 

[barehl]

Okay, let's look at a typical net article. This one is from April 18th 2014:
A better than 50/50 chance Kepler-186f has technological life.

The article goes into a lot of detail about how the signals are detected and analyzed. However, let's look at the planet itself.

It orbits the star, Kepler 186, which is a type M1 red dwarf.

The only stars that are expected to have life are F, G, and K. Our sun is type G which is in the middle of this range. Stars half the mass of our sun would require the planets to be in so close that they would get tide-locked. And, stars more than 1.5x the mass of our sun burn too hot and fast. BTW, when I suggested that the habitable zone extended from Earth to Mars, that is for a type G. It would be in a little closer with type K and out a bit farther with type F.

So, based on the star alone we can assume there is zero chance that Kepler 186f has life. But, let's look at the planet itself.

Kepler 186f is about 1.15 Earth radii or about 30-60% more mass. So, with a sun like ours it would need to be a little farther out in its orbit.

Kepler 186 only has 4% as much solar radiation as our sun. So, you would need an orbit of about 0.2 AU. Kepler 186f is at 0.38 AU which would make it too far away if it were Earth sized. However, the extra mass makes it about right. However, with an orbit at about where Mercury is, this planet would be tide locked. This may not make sense to everyone. Basically, the star is about half the sun's mass so gravity is about half. However, since gravity is the inverse square of the distance, you get 1/0.38^2 = 7. Divide by two and you get 3.5X the gravitational attraction that the Earth gets. This would tide lock the planet.

 

[barehl]

The idea of a single habitable zone in each system is surely somewhat outdated. There are now several candidates sites for life in the solar system that are outside the original supposed HZ, eg some of the moons of Saturn and Jupiter.

Oh, you are including single celled life which might be based on volcanic compounds like the fumaroles on the sea floor. Yes, that is possible. However, I'm not sure how this would be detected outside our solar system.

When I talk about life, I mean life based on solar radiation.

 

[barehl]

Sure I get that, but in terms of mass, I would suggest location is a stronger driver than mass in the viability of a planet (up to a point) I would even argue that density assuming a thicker atmosphere could be a positive for emerging life rather than a negative

I'm not sure what you mean. A thicker atmosphere retains more heat so it would have to be farther from the sun. This means that the surface would experience less UV than Earth did. This might be an advantage or disadvantage.

Location is not independent of mass. You need a magnetic field to prevent the solar wind from blowing your water away. The closer you are to the sun the strong of field you need. As you get farther away, you need more mass so the atmosphere will retain more heat. However, the magnetic field will also increase with more mass. Eventually this becomes a problem because the solar wind will add hydrogen that will be retained by the planet and it will become a gas dwarf.

 

[abaddon]

What data transfer method has the highest bandwidth?

1) Ethernet
2) Fiber Optic cable
3) Truck

The correct answer is 3. <snip>

Incorrect.

The correct answer is "woo". "woo" transmits faster than the speed of light, and expands as it propagates. You can't explain that. Therefore "woo".

 

[MG1962]

I'm not sure what you mean. A thicker atmosphere retains more heat so it would have to be farther from the sun. This means that the surface would experience less UV than Earth did. This might be an advantage or disadvantage.

Location is not independent of mass. You need a magnetic field to prevent the solar wind from blowing your water away. The closer you are to the sun the strong of field you need. As you get farther away, you need more mass so the atmosphere will retain more heat. However, the magnetic field will also increase with more mass. Eventually this becomes a problem because the solar wind will add hydrogen that will be retained by the planet and it will become a gas dwarf.

I really have to say I am struggling to understand the sudden introduction of magnetic fields into the discussion. No magnetic field. No matter the size of the planet it is going to be game over. So we are not going to be looking for life in such a place.

 

[Manopolus]

That the speed of light is an absolute barrier.

ahh... absolutism! Gotta love that stuff -- works great for religions.

 

[JoeMorgue]

Two scientists said something that sounds superficially contradictory if you don't think about it for more than two seconds, therefore science doesn't work, therefore Woo.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Since there hasn't been a bombardment of articles addressing a SETIlife find indicating possible evidence of technological life, it's hard to take a single Blog seriously.

Here's a more tempered discussion: Looking for signs of life on Kepler 186-F

Although about science, [Science 2.0 post] blog is primarily lacking in real science. By my reckoning, even the most optimistic assumptions indicate a probability of << 1/1000. But that is the topic of another blog.

 

[Peregrinus]

"The Universe is largely unexplored." - NPR news item (and possibly the Universe's ultimate understatement)

 

[Ziggurat]

Incorrect.

The correct answer is "woo". "woo" transmits faster than the speed of light, and expands as it propagates. You can't explain that. Therefore "woo".

The problem with that assertion is that woo carries no information. Information cannot travel faster than the speed of light, but disinformation can.

 

[Darwin123]

Please cancel this statement. I just read the warnings in my notifications. I will keep to forum standards from now on.

Moderator: If I am unsuccessful in deleting this response, then please remove it. I do not wish to break the rules any farther. I apologize.

 

[Pixel42]

Oh, you are including single celled life which might be based on volcanic compounds like the fumaroles on the sea floor.

I am referring to the fact that the conditions for life (including liquid water), originally assumed to exist only in the HZ, are now known to also be created by tidal forces in the moons of gas giants far outside it. I don't know why you assume that life which arose in such circumstances would be restricted to single cells.

It's certainly true that such life would be much harder to detect than life on planets in the HZ, so would life on satellites of planets in the HZ, but we still need to keep those possibilities in mind.

 

[tsig]

ahh... absolutism! Gotta love that stuff -- works great for religions.

The fear of using certain words certainly does provide religion room to hide.

 

[casebro]

I'm not sure I understand your question. Are you asking me to prove that the technology that SETI uses everyday actually exists? They've been at this awhile now; I can assure you that things have advanced since they started. This is like asking me to prove that Linux is more sophisticated than the first version of Unix.

The original question was "Has SETI contributed any advancements that are beneficial to the rest of society?" NOT "Has seti advanced?"

Did Boze borrow from SETI, or is SETI doing better because they borrowed from Boze?

I wold think that if the SETI team had brought us advancements in technology, they would be trumpeting it in both AM and FM.