Merged So there was melted steel

[LSSBB]

There is nothing here to "debunk". People claim to have seen something. So what?

What would you like "debunked"? What they thought they saw?

You might want to explain how any of this matters. Oh, that's right, you have no clue.

Exactly.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Actually, one of the Skyride towers from the Chicago World Fair was accomplished with thermite. It wasn't easy, though.

I see... still I think the difficulty of the procedure in the precedent plus the added effect of the plane impacts still renders this as one of the "firsts"... At the end of the day, this sort of logic is flawed obviously. Still I fnd it interesting just musing on it because the TM uses it in one respect but not when it's inconvenient to them.

@ergo... find physical and testimonial corroboration of this melted steel at the same day this event took place and you might have something stronger to present. I can just about guarantee you won't find any survivors who reported seeing bright flashes during their evacuation and the survivors who were in the stairwell when one of the towers collapsed suffered no injuries at all due to close proximity with explosives or heat exposure from these thermite charges. I think those two factors are some of the most damning against the two options for CD.... aside from the obvious lack of physical evidence.

 

[ozeco41]

I see...

Actually that one exception helps the debunker argument more than it helps the truther claims.

The size of the containment devices and the quantity of thermite used on that ONE exception presents a strong logistic argument against use of thermite at WTC...




...plus, since on that occasion it had never been used before, THEN by truther logic it couldn't have happened then.

 

[ergo]

Testimonials are worthless unless supported by evidence.

If you want to live by that rule, that's fine by me. There are a number of elements of the 9/11 story that are not supported by any evidence available to us. Two of them off the top of my head would be WTC 7's alleged "full involvement", and the alleged killing of bin Laden in 2010.

Got evidence?

Yep.

 

[beachnut]

If you want to live by that rule, that's fine by me. There are a number of elements of the 9/11 story that are not supported by any evidence available to us. Two of them off the top of my head would be WTC 7's alleged "full involvement", and the alleged killing of bin Laden in 2010.




Yep.

Talk of melted steel is not evidence; same as talk of Bigfoot is not reality.
Physics is required. If not physics, critical thinking; JREF stuff.

 

[ergo]

Talk of melted steel is not evidence; same as talk of Bigfoot is not reality.
Physics is required. If not physics, critical thinking;

Hey, don't tell me. Tell Astaneh-asl, Ghoniem, Leslie Robertson, Richard Garlock, Keith Eaton, Pete Tully, Ronald Burger, James Williams, William Langewiesche, Larry Keating, Richard Riggs, Mike Donoho, Don Carson, Alison Geyh, Edward Malloy, Greg Fuchek, Herb Trimpe, Philip Ruvolo, Ken Holden, Guy Lounsbury, Glen Klein, Maddalena Romano, James Glanz, fire chiefs, firefighters, ironworkers, other pile workers, first responders, New York Sanitation Workers, the ASSE, the NEHA, RJ Lee, the 9/11 Commission, and the USGS.

Tell them that their evidence is lacking and their testimonies are not credible, according to you. Tell them that you, armchair internet "debunker", need to see their data, because their testimonies don't match what you believe about 9/11. Tell them that you are more likely to be right than they are, simply by virtue of the fact that you sit at home typing on your computer keyboard, while they do dumb things like help out in a tragedy, analyze evidence, do aerial surveys, take measurements, write reports and communicate to their peers or to the general public.

 

[Dcdrac]

I will tell you what is lacking your evidence, you still have not produced credible evidence just an appeal to a list of names of people who might or might not have known what they are looking at.

 

[brazenlilraisin]

off the top of my head...the alleged killing of bin Laden in 2010.




Yep.

Who alleged bin Laden was killed in 2010?





You are really so very not good at this.

 

[Orphia Nay]

I will tell you what is lacking your evidence, you still have not produced credible evidence just an appeal to a list of names of people who might or might not have known what they are looking at.

But I see the error of our ways...

If we expect ergo to provide evidence of molten steel, next he'll be expected to show evidence that thermite burns for 100 days, or even that there was any thermite at all in the rubble, and who knows what else?

We can't expect poor ergo to do that, now? That would be asking too much.

 

[Fizzard]

Tell them that their evidence is lacking and their testimonies are not credible, according to you.

A few of them have been questioned about their testimonies.

Leslie Robertson admitted he wouldn't have known whether he saw molten steel.
http://911myths.com/html/leslie_robertson.html

Alison Geyh said she didn't personally see molten steel.
http://911myths.com/html/dr_alison_geyh.html

Edward Malloy said he saw "burning steel" but then admitted he had no idea what type of metal it was.
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2012/04/troofers-inspire-terrorist.html#c8001922477367196189

Is there anyone at all who, upon further questioning, can confirm having seen molten steel as opposed to some other molten metal, or melted girders as opposed to sulfidized girders?

 

[JSanderO]

What does burning steel look like?

 

[ozeco41]

What does burning steel look like?

I dunno - but I'm not a truther.

 

[ergo]

A few of them have been questioned about their testimonies.

Leslie Robertson admitted he wouldn't have known whether he saw molten steel.
http://911myths.com/html/leslie_robertson.html

Alison Geyh said she didn't personally see molten steel.
http://911myths.com/html/dr_alison_geyh.html

Edward Malloy said he saw "burning steel" but then admitted he had no idea what type of metal it was.
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/2012/04/troofers-inspire-terrorist.html#c8001922477367196189

Uh oh. They're not sure they saw melted steel. So it may have been, or may not have been. Uh oh. Doubt has been sown. Let's call it "debunked", shall we?

Is there anyone at all who, upon further questioning, can confirm having seen molten steel as opposed to some other molten metal, or melted girders as opposed to sulfidized girders?

If it's that important to you that there be no melted steel at the WTC, then you could find that out. There are many more you could be asking. Why don't you ask Astaneh-asl?

 

[chrismohr]

Uh oh. They're not sure they saw melted steel. So it may have been, or may not have been. Uh oh. Doubt has been sown. Let's call it "debunked", shall we?




If it's that important to you that there be no melted steel at the WTC, then you could find that out. There are many more you could be asking. Why don't you ask Astaneh-asl?

Wasn't that the guy who threatened to sue 9/11 truth people for quote-mining him? Or was that someone else?

 

[ergo]

What does burning steel look like?

I don't know either. I haven't seen that comment attributed to Malloy before. I have a different quote for him. I thought it was an ironworker who saw steel on fire.

Also, I don't know if Malloy is a doctor. He is a priest, however.

 

[ergo]

Chris, as a fellow journalist, I thought you might be interested in what James Glanz had to say:

“A three-foot stalagmite of steel, which looks for all the world like a drip candle, sits next to one of the immense steel columns that held up the north face of the tower.” — James Glanz, New York Times, “Below Rubble, a Tour of a Still-Burning Hell”, November 15, 2001

What's a stalagmite? What do you think he might have really been looking at?

 

[beachnut]

Uh oh. They're not sure they saw melted steel. So it may have been, or may not have been. Uh oh. Doubt has been sown. Let's call it "debunked", shall we?




If it's that important to you that there be no melted steel at the WTC, then you could find that out. There are many more you could be asking. Why don't you ask Astaneh-asl?

I asked him, Astaneh-asl said no melted steel. He thinks your theories on 911 are idiotic.
Why have you failed to contact your "sources" and ask them what they think? Not one of them have a sample. Then you quote news stuff, and more hearsay from news sources http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/15/nyregion/15SITE.html.

Why don't you ask Astaneh-asl?

“When the fires started, they heated up the steel. In my opinion, the truss joists collapsed first, leaving the exterior columns of probably two floors in the impact area with no bracing but still under gravity load from the floors above. As the columns heated up and reached temperatures of nearly 1,000F, their strength was reduced to less than half the design strength and they started to buckle. When the columns buckled, the top portion of the building, losing its supports, was pulled down by gravity and dropping on the floors below, pancaking the floors one after another and leading to progressive collapse in an almost perfect vertical direction of the pull of gravity force.” http://www.designnews.com/document.asp?doc_id=218785

oops, fire did it. darn, you were so close to your fantasy... not

Quote:
-----Original Message-----
From: Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 12:02 PM
To: Ronald Wieck
Subject: Re: 'Hardfire' Appearance

Dear Ronald: All those who use my quote in this context of conspiracy theories are absolutely wrong and are doing a dis-service to the truth, the victims and their families and the humanity. No one should use that specific quote "molten metal" out of context, to indicate that I have seen molten metal and then use my good name and reputation as a researcher to conclude that there was a conspiracy.

All I tell to those who use my name is: "please stop using a phrase "molten steel" from eight years of my work and statements to further your absolutely misguided and baseless conspiracy theories and find another subject for your discussion . You are hurting the victims' families immensely and if you have any humanity you would stop doing so and will not use my name nor the out of context words from my work " . But will they listen?

Best wishes and hoping that these conspiracy theorists will stop using my name in any context.

Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl, Ph.D., P.E., Professor
University of California , Berkeley
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6153531&postcount=644

He has told you to stop using it. Why have you failed to listen. 3 years ago, and research is not getting better with 911 truth.

Why does 911 truth repeat failed claims every three years?

 

[GlennB]

From a post by Carlitos in another thread :

(just a few samples)

"As the highway reopened early Monday, investigators worked to identify vehicles, some of which were reduced to molten steel in the fire's intense heat."

"A fire at an illegal dump beneath an elevated highway yesterday melted steel supports and buckled a section of the busy route into the New York metropolitan area, authorities said."

"What apparently drove residents to risk life and limb was dense, acrid smoke that filled the building and flames "so hot they melted steel," [Fire Commissioner Raymond] Orozco said"

etc etc

People, even ones experienced around fire scenes, are guilty of all kinds of misrepresentations. 'Sagged' might de described as melted by some. Molten aluminium might, casually, be described as molten steel by others, and so on.

Nothing to see here .....

 

[beachnut]

... What's a stalagmite? What do you think he might have really been looking at?

A simile.

 

[Animal]

Chris, as a fellow journalist, I thought you might be interested in what James Glanz had to say:


Quote:
“A three-foot stalagmite of steel, which looks for all the world like a drip candle, sits next to one of the immense steel columns that held up the north face of the tower.” — James Glanz, New York Times, “Below Rubble, a Tour of a Still-Burning Hell”, November 15, 2001


What's a stalagmite? What do you think he might have really been looking at?

Another dishonest cherry pick from trooferville.

Your quote is a return to the opening paragraph of the article.......

"A descent beneath the World Trade Center is a passage into a grotesque landscape of stalagmites formed by dripping metal, entire office floors compressed into a space of six inches, and train cars smashed all the way down to the tracks by collapsed concrete ceilings. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/15/n...ow-rubble-a-tour-of-a-still-burning-hell.html

(Bolding mine)