So, are black people really more racist than whites?

[chris epic]

You're completely correct about it's usage in the social sciences. That's why I took the university's side in the thread awhile back about a school saying disempowered minorities can't be racist; because given the definition of the word in its context, they can't. However, while that meaning of racism is fairly well accepted inside academia, this forum is outside academia, as is the OP and topic of the thread. Thus, while I agree with you, we all know how 'racism' is being used in this thread and it doesn't hurt anyone to accept the colloquial definition for the purposes of the discussion.

That's fair enough for me. So I'll stop nit-picking because I can see how it can be really annoying unless this thread were about "The definition of Racism; Colloquial or Academic?"

All in all, I will say that it is still grievously presumptuous to implicate some poll's 80% African-American vote for an African-American as RACIST, especially if you replace the "black" with "white." If you did, nobody would notice. And I think that is the dilema here, regardless of the semantics.

 

[brodski]

You can call it prejudice, you can call it biggotry, you can call it ignorance, but it is not the accurate definition of racism.

Without getting into argument by dictionary, yes, it is- rascism, or any other ideoligy is not dependant on location. If david Duke went to africa he'd still be a rascist

I went to work and realized it wasn't very fair, so I apologize.

no need to appolgise.

I understand racism is an ideology. I guess the part I don't agree with, or maybe haven't come to understand fully yet, is that although I, an individual white person, don't have the capability to implement racist policies doesn't exclude me from the fact that because I am white, my biggotry toward minorities is racism; whereas an individual ethnic minority's biggotry toward me is never racism.

perhaps you haven't accepted it because it is utter hogswash?
In they manner that sociologists have proposed this theory of racism, It is in fact a racist theory in itself, a condemnation of anything "white" as racism and patronising in the extreme to people who are not "white" whether they be racist or not.

 

[LostAngeles]

isn't that oppressive? Culturally? Socially? Historically?

Sure, but it doesn't have to be the, "majority," in power doing it to be oppressive.

I hadn't thought of that. I think I always thought it was the other way around. I guess I'm not too familiar with the word "bigotry."

A bigot simply has prejudices.

A male chauvinist is a bigot.

An extreme feminist is a bigot.

A nationalist is a bigot. (A patriot is not a bigot necessarily.)

A homophobe is a bigot.

A racist is a bigot.

An Islamic fundamentalist is a bigot.

A Christian fundamentalist is a bigot.

And bigot is just a subset of *******.

 

[rtalman]

The Clintons are Spanish. Clinton is just an Americanized form of Clintonio.

Then would that have made Clinton the first Black-Hispanic President instead of just the first Black President?

 

[Dr Adequate]

I guess Elind really does have me on ignore.

Hello, Elind. You remember how I proved you were wrong?

Hello ...

I can see intellectually dead people.

 

[rtalman]

I guess Elind really does have me on ignore.

Hello, Elind. You remember how I proved you were wrong?

Hello ...

I can see intellectually dead people.

You drank his milkshake. You drank it up.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Racial superiority and inferiority is the stuff RACISM is made of. Ethnic preferences because one better relates is completely social- just as has been mention several times before on this thread, it is no different than Christians voting for a Christian president; residents of Utah and Mass voting for Mitt; etc.

As I suggested, tribal voting.

DR

 

[Darth Rotor]

Bigotry is the larger set of which racism is a subset.

If we ever meet, the first few beers (or whatever you are drinking) are on me. Too many people forget this.

Excuse me, I am the Grand Definer, and I declare that racism is the belief in the existence of races of humans.

You should have quit while you were ahead.

Never mind, you've never been ahead. Seek the popping sound that precedes daylight.

You're attempting to be rational? How is assuming that Black people are voting for Obama just because he's Black, thus Blacks are "more racist" rational?

Sort of where I am coming from, but you said it better.

Guinness?

DR

 

[Dr Adequate]

I'd just like to ask: is there anyone at all reading this thread who thinks that Elind's reasoning stands up?

Apart from Elind, of course.

Anyone?

 

[Elind]

By the numbers it appears you made the connection that Blacks are voting for Obama based on skin color. How many of these people have you talked to?

If you have read earlier posts you will know that this point has been made on a number of occasions by others, but strangely none has thought it relevant to suggest why blacks favor Obama more than whites. Personally I think most blacks (at least those who bother to vote) don't think very differently from me on basic issues, at least when I used to be a Democrat.

I don't talk politics with many people outside my family, but I do read newspapers and watch TV. So please tell me why Obama gets 80 percent of the black vote, and has done so from early in the race?

 

[Elind]

All in all, I will say that it is still grievously presumptuous to implicate some poll's 80% African-American vote for an African-American as RACIST, especially if you replace the "black" with "white." If you did, nobody would notice. And I think that is the dilema here, regardless of the semantics.

Which "black" would you replace with "white", the voter or the candidate?

I think people would damn well notice if Obama got only 20% of the white voters, don't you?

 

[Elind]

perhaps you haven't accepted it because it is utter hogswash?
In the manner that sociologists have proposed this theory of racism, It is in fact a racist theory in itself, a condemnation of anything "white" as racism and patronising in the extreme to people who are not "white" whether they be racist or not.

I was going to say that it is utterly patronizing to suggest that minorities have a different mental process and are incapable of thinking like white people, good and bad, and therefore can't be racist themselves.

Let me restate, since past posts tend to be forgotten fast, that I do believe such issues are not always black and white (no pun intended), but that "racism" can merge into "bigotry" or "tribalism" or "favoritism" and doesn't have to be malicious.

However, the double standard remains, IMHO, that whites will be called racist regardless of the above alternative words, whereas blacks will not. I think that attitude is itself racist in principle.

 

[Elind]

As I suggested, tribal voting.

DR

Yes, it's a valid word, with very close connections to racism worldwide.

 

[Elind]

I guess Elind really does have me on ignore.

I never put on ignore, just on bore.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

So please tell me why Obama gets 80 percent of the black vote, and has done so from early in the race?

Because he hasn't. The media talked about Clinton getting more of the black vote than Obama and questioned about whether he was "black enough" for a long time in the campaign. Obama didn't automatically get the majority of black voters.

 

[Elind]

Because he hasn't. The media talked about Clinton getting more of the black vote than Obama and questioned about whether he was "black enough" for a long time in the campaign. Obama didn't automatically get the majority of black voters.

It was silly of me to use the word "early" without being specific. Red Herring, which doesn't change the more recent numbers I see, but of course if he becomes the clear winner the issue becomes moot, as he will get all remaining voters.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

It was silly of me to use the word "early" without being specific. Red Herring, which doesn't change the more recent numbers I see, but of course if he becomes the clear winner the issue becomes moot, as he will get all remaining voters.

That's not the point. He was polling lower than Hillary for a long time, then a whole lot higher. Something changed, and it wasn't his skin color.

 

[This is The End]

I can’t decide what saddens me more in this thread, the abuse of semantics or statistics.

That aside, I do wish my somewhat pointed question had been answered more directly.

 

[332nd]

If you have read earlier posts you will know that this point has been made on a number of occasions by others, but strangely none has thought it relevant to suggest why blacks favor Obama more than whites. Personally I think most blacks (at least those who bother to vote) don't think very differently from me on basic issues, at least when I used to be a Democrat.

I don't talk politics with many people outside my family, but I do read newspapers and watch TV. So please tell me why Obama gets 80 percent of the black vote, and has done so from early in the race?

I don't know. Much like White folks, Jews, Hispanics, Women, Gays, etc... We don't have a big meeting to discuss what we're going to support/protest/do what ever each year. Since I don't know what the vast majority are thinking I don't assume why they take a certain action based on my own prejudice.

Both Clinton and Obama love to speak of change. Could it be that more voters see Obama as the biggest change?

We've had one Clinton in office. Could it be that Voters are worried about another scandal that looks bad but has no effect on the job?

Could it be that Many White people think that Clinton was stupid for not leaving her husband when he had an affair?

Could it be that some Dems blame (Bill) Clinton for Gore not winning?

Could it be that People are sick of the name Clinton since many right wing talking heads couldn't let it go?

Could it be that Obama's style and intensity reminds People of (What I consider to be) The last true Black leaders Dr. King and Malcolm X?

Could it be that Blacks are hoping that if Obama gets elected then jackasses like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton will shut up?

Could it be that he's the most physically attractive candidate?

Could it be that because of 24 and Deep Impact people want a Black President?

I don't know and neither do you. Assuming that it's just because he's Black is stupid.

Sort of where I am coming from, but you said it better.

Guinness?

Hell yeah!

 

[LostAngeles]

...

Could it be that because of 24 and Deep Impact people want a Black President?

...

Absolutely not.