So, are black people really more racist than whites?

[Elind]

I keep seeing numbers that say something like 80+% of Black Americans are voting for Obama.

Now, at a certain level one can kind of see that there would be a tendency to do so, just as some people would vote for Hillary just because they think the idea of having the first woman president is cool.

However if 80% of white people did not vote for Obama because he was black, then of course we would be a racist nation, but when 80% of black people vote for Obama because he is black (or at least the other 30% or so of them who vote over and above whites), then that is not racist??

It seems that if one votes for someone due to race that is not racist, but if one votes against someone for race then it is?

What am I missing here?

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Actually, he didn't just automatically "get" all the black voters. People were talking for a long time about how they thought he needed to get his polling up among the black vote.

IMO, the Clinton's just lost the black vote more than he gained it.

 

[Brainster]

Many ethnic groups stick together. You think Italians didn't vote disproportionately for Giuliani, or Catholics for Kennedy, or Jews for Lieberman?

And there's a valid reason why. Despite the common belief that people vote based on issues, in fact they often look to find points about the guy they can identify with. Veterans vote for McCain disproportionately. I'm sure Mitt Romney had the CEO vote. Religious people vote for Mike Huckabee. Women are flocking to Hillary, especially white women. That whites are interested in the Obama campaign may have to do with different areas of identification--youth, masculinity, idealism, etc. And of course, there's Clinton fatigue as well to be considered.

 

[shuize]

I agree with the OP that if 80% of whites declined to vote for Obama, it would be used by some as evidence of racism.

 

[Elind]

Many ethnic groups stick together. You think Italians didn't vote disproportionately for Giuliani, or Catholics for Kennedy, or Jews for Lieberman?

And there's a valid reason why. Despite the common belief that people vote based on issues, in fact they often look to find points about the guy they can identify with. Veterans vote for McCain disproportionately. I'm sure Mitt Romney had the CEO vote. Religious people vote for Mike Huckabee. Women are flocking to Hillary, especially white women. That whites are interested in the Obama campaign may have to do with different areas of identification--youth, masculinity, idealism, etc. And of course, there's Clinton fatigue as well to be considered.

Of course people vote on issues or stances or, as some claim, "values".

Is race an "issue"?

 

[Elind]

I agree with the OP that if 80% of whites declined to vote for Obama, it would be used by some as evidence of racism.

As evidence of racism by whites; but you avoid addressing the point.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Actually, there is an election scheme used here where judges change their middle name to something Irish or Polish to get votes (Here we elect all the judges, which creates a huge list and it turns out poeple vote for specific ethnic names)

 

[Puppycow]

I read a certain pro-Clinton opinion piece where the author made the following statement.

I'm voting for Hillary not because she's a woman, but because I'm a woman.

There are reasons other than racism for blacks to vote for a black presidential candidate. Hillary or Edwards might be just as good on the issues, but If Obama becomes president, there would be an African-American role model in the White House so they can feel at last like they are no longer second-class citizens in America, and can point to him as a concrete example proving that.

This is because there never has yet been an African-American or Female US president.
If, in the future, after there are precedents, they continue to vote for black candidates over whites more than whites do, then maybe you could say there is more racism.

Also, what do you imagine it would be like if the demographics were reversed? Say, only 15% of the population was white and there had never yet been a white president, and there was a history of slavery and second-class citizenship in which the whites had been victims?

 

[Elind]

Actually, there is an election scheme used here where judges change their middle name to something Irish or Polish to get votes (Here we elect all the judges, which creates a huge list and it turns out poeple vote for specific ethnic names)

By a margin of 30-40% more than the roughly 50% of the white vote?

Would he have 99% of the black vote if his name wasn't Barrack Hussein Obama?

 

[Elind]

I read a certain pro-Clinton opinion piece where the author made the following statement.

There are reasons other than racism for blacks to vote for a black presidential candidate. Hillary or Edwards might be just as good on the issues, but If Obama becomes president, there would be an African-American role model in the White House so they can feel at last like they are no longer second-class citizens in America, and can point to him as a concrete example proving that.

This is the kind of BS that perpetuates racism, or the perception of it as an apology for other issues. Blacks are not second class citizens in the US that I know and if there is one thing among many that illustrates it, it is precisely the support that Obama has, in a predominantly white nation.

This is because there never has yet been an African-American or Female US president.
If, in the future, after there are precedents, they continue to vote for black candidates over whites more than whites do, then maybe you could say there is more racism.

"If, in the future....." but heaven forbid, don't say such things now in the 21st century....

Also, what do you imagine it would be like if the demographics were reversed? Say, only 15% of the population was white and there had never yet been a white president, and there was a history of slavery and second-class citizenship in which the whites had been victims?

Do you actually think you are making a point here?

 

[Puppycow]

Yes.

 

[332nd]

Why are people voting for Clinton and McCain again?

 

[Elind]

Yes.

So you are saying that black people vote according to racist prejudices, but that's OK because they have had bad times in their history, but nobody else does?

 

[NobbyNobbs]

However if 80%of white people did not vote for Obama because he was black, then of course we would be a racist nation, but when 80% of black people vote for Obama because he is black (or at least the other 30% or so of them who vote over and above whites), then that is not racist??

/nipick/

80% + 30% = ?

Vote early, vote often.

/end nitpick/

 

[Brainster]

Of course people vote on issues or stances or, as some claim, "values".

If you are saying some people, yes, some people vote on issues or values. I guarantee you that in a presidential run it's not all about that though.

Is race an "issue"?

Mitt Romney won 91% of the vote in Utah. Is Mormonism an issue? Again, you're mistaking what's going on in pursuit of some different argument.

 

[Elind]

/nipick/

80% + 30% = ?

Vote early, vote often.

/end nitpick/

pay attention please nitpick, and you will get it I'm sure.

 

[Elind]

If you are saying some people, yes, some people vote on issues or values. I guarantee you that in a presidential run it's not all about that though.



Mitt Romney won 91% of the vote in Utah. Is Mormonism an issue? Again, you're mistaking what's going on in pursuit of some different argument.

I never said it's all about that, but you seem to be flitting all over the place, except addressing the question which is indeed a different argument. Would you like to start a new thread on whatever yours is?

Yes, Mormons, creationists, scientologists and the like will vote for their tribal representatives, and no doubt there are other examples, but doing so just for the sake of skin color is in a different category. If black American people had wanted a "cultural" representative they couldn't have picked a less likely candidate than Obama.

I find it strange that I have to clarify these things so much.

 

[Puppycow]

Mitt Romney won 91% of the vote in Utah. Is Mormonism an issue? Again, you're mistaking what's going on in pursuit of some different argument.

Good point. Elind: Are Mormons bigots?

 

[Elind]

Elind: Are Mormons bigots?

I already answered that, with the obvious and self evident fact that some people are single issue voters inasmuch as they vote for their own. Creationists tend to be, Mormons seem to be, but those issues can be described by less tangible things than the color of a person's skin.


As to your question, I have to ask; are there any black Mormons?

What's his name?

 

[rtalman]

Latinos have voted in overwhelming margins for Clinton... how does that fit into your hypothesis?