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SNL Tribute to Obama

sunmaster14 said:
I completely disagree that it was an attempt to be funny. I have no doubt in fact that it was 100% heartfelt and sincere. Which is both sad and funny in a way.
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The absence of doubt on the part of a believer is not actually evidence of the truth of the belief.


The skit portrayed a couple of Obama supporters as infatuated schoolgirls, using a song that represented a black man from a movie made in the 1960's.

You found it funny because that's how you see a lot of Obama supporters. Naïve, moonstruck, unaware of much of the world. They served up an image of Obama supporters that was, for many of them, accurate, but not exactly flattering. You found that funny. You were supposed to.

At least, that's what I would assume was the intent of the skit. I must admit, thought, that my confidence in my assessment is not as high as yours, but that is true for a lot of my beliefs.
 
Meadmaker said:
The absence of doubt on the part of a believer is not actually evidence of the truth of the belief.


The skit portrayed a couple of Obama supporters as infatuated schoolgirls, using a song that represented a black man from a movie made in the 1960's.
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I honestly don't believe you really believe that. I'll admit that I could be wrong about that belief.

You found it funny because that's how you see a lot of Obama supporters. Naïve, moonstruck, unaware of much of the world. They served up an image of Obama supporters that was, for many of them, accurate, but not exactly flattering. You found that funny. You were supposed to.
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I actually didn't find it funny in the usual sense. I found it stomach turning. It's kind of like that fine line between laughing and crying.

At least, that's what I would assume was the intent of the skit. I must admit, thought, that my confidence in my assessment is not as high as yours, but that is true for a lot of my beliefs.
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Yeah, well confidence in one's beliefs comes with the ability to argue for them successfully. You'll gain confidence too as you tighten up your arguments and improve your knowledge.
 
sunmaster14 said:
I honestly don't believe you really believe that. I'll admit that I could be wrong about that belief.



I actually didn't find it funny in the usual sense. I found it stomach turning. It's kind of like that fine line between laughing and crying.



Yeah, well confidence in one's beliefs comes with the ability to argue for them successfully. You'll gain confidence too as you tighten up your arguments and improve your knowledge.
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He told you what he believed the skit was about. What is he supposed to argue?

Nice subtle ad hom at the end, BTW. Maybe if I study you more, I can learn how to throw insults at people and stay within the MA. You are the master at it.
 
Nova Land said:
I realize certain right-wing talk-show hosts liked to make jokes about Obama being "the messiah" and "the anointed one" back in the 2008 and 2012 election campaigns, and that certain of their listeners were gullible enough to believe this was something Obama's supporters were calling him, but I thought even most right-wingers had realized by now this was an attempt at humor by the various Limbaugh-types who were repeating it.

We had a couple of threads related to this back in 2011. One of them, which I started, was intended as an examination of the claim that liberals were constantly telling us that Barack Obama is the smartest president ever, which conservative poster BeAChooser had made. BeAChooser was able to provide examples of right-wing media making the claim that liberals were always saying this but was not able to provide actual examples of liberals saying this.

In writing the OP for that thread I made a reference to the messiah claim as well:




One of the posters in that thread wanted to discuss the messiah claim, so I spun that off into a thread of its own ("Who calls Barack Obama the messiah -- and why?") so we could examine that claim as well.

In that thread I presented evidence in support of my claim that "people such as Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity routinely refer to Barack Obama as 'The Messiah', 'The Anointed One', and 'The One' -- not because they actually believe that Barack Obama is the Messiah but in an attempt to mock Barack Obama and his followers", and I invited anyone who could to provide evidence in support of the echo chamber claim that Barack Obama's supporters frequently refer to him as the Messiah. No one was able to provide any substantive evidence in support of the latter claim.

I've bumped that thread for your benefit, so that you can present evidence now to support the claim if you seriously believe it's true. (Or, if posting in a 6-year-old thread doesn't appeal to you, we can start a brand-new thread to discuss it.)
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I admire your optimism.
 
sunmaster14 said:
I honestly don't believe you really believe that. I'll admit that I could be wrong about that belief.
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This just gets bizarre sometimes. Here is the statement you are referring to:

The skit portrayed a couple of Obama supporters as infatuated schoolgirls, using a song that represented a black man from a movie made in the 1960's.
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So...what's not to believe?

It's a skit, right? A sketch. That's what SNL does.

Now, there were two characters in the skit. Right?

They were Obama supporters, right?

Let's skip to the end. The song was the theme from a 1960s movie. Syndey Poitier portrayed a black man teaching London schoolgirls. Right?

The song was sung from the viewpoint of one of the graduates, an 18 year old young woman who looks up to and admires, and perhaps is infatuated with, their wise, and coincidentally handsome, father figure.

That's the skit. What's there to not believe?
 
UnrepentantSinner said:
I admire your optimism.
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Thank you.

One of the main reasons I joined the JREF forum was because I would like to see skeptics applying the same methods and principles in examining everyday claims (such as political ones) as we do in examining claims of the paranormal.

Unfortunately many people with strong political beliefs are as resistant to applying skepticism in politics as people with strong paranormal beliefs are to applying skepticism to their beliefs.

I realize that not all people who post on ISF are skeptics, and that many don't see the value in trying to present evidence clearly and honestly, examine and weigh the evidence, and see where that leads us. But hopefully those who don't yet appreciate the value of skepticism will over time come to appreciate it and to begin to practice it if those of us who do believe in skepticism can post enough threads dedicated to examining evidence skeptically to show the folks who are more prone to assertion, emojis, bluster and insults how fun and rewarding actual skeptical enquiry can be.
 
Meadmaker said:
This just gets bizarre sometimes. Here is the statement you are referring to:



So...what's not to believe?

It's a skit, right? A sketch. That's what SNL does.

Now, there were two characters in the skit. Right?

They were Obama supporters, right?

Let's skip to the end. The song was the theme from a 1960s movie. Syndey Poitier portrayed a black man teaching London schoolgirls. Right?

The song was sung from the viewpoint of one of the graduates, an 18 year old young woman who looks up to and admires, and perhaps is infatuated with, their wise, and coincidentally handsome, father figure.

That's the skit. What's there to not believe?
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The two women were not meant to be infatuated schoolgirls. They were meant to be heartfelt admirers of the former President. Which they are. There was no satire there. It was a sincere tribute. Can you show me any serious commentary from somebody else which suggests otherwise?
 
BobTheCoward said:
And I will debate why it is unnecessary for you to ask for it. You are free to ignore me, but I will continue to post in response.
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Look, I don't really want to derail this thread into a meta-debate about debate or whatnot, but I think you would have a hard time showing that it is unnecessary for me to ask my question of Meadmaker. I felt it was necessary, and that should be sufficient. Do you want me to find another source to back me up on my implicit (now explicit) claim that my question was necessary?
 
sunmaster14 said:
Look, I don't really want to derail this thread into a meta-debate about debate or whatnot, but I think you would have a hard time showing that it is unnecessary for me to ask my question of Meadmaker. I felt it was necessary, and that should be sufficient. Do you want me to find another source to back me up on my implicit (now explicit) claim that my question was necessary?
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Meadmaker's commentary may be a novel idea. If so, it is his intellectual creation. By its very nature then there wouldn't be other commentators saying it. If everyone is writing only on a limited number of sides on an issue, we would have far less commentary.
 
sunmaster14 said:
The two women were not meant to be infatuated schoolgirls. They were meant to be heartfelt admirers of the former President.
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The two statements are not contradictory.

They were singing "To Sir, With Love". Who sings that?

Is it even possible to sing that song without satire?

Which they are. There was no satire there. It was a sincere tribute. Can you show me any serious commentary from somebody else which suggests otherwise?
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I doubt I could show you any serious commentary about that skit. Even my own commentary is unworthy of any publication more serious than an internet forum. It's serious, but not in any real consequential sort of way.
 
I couldn't help myself. I had to google it.

If the bit was meant to be a joke, a lot of people didn't get it.

If it was not meant to be a joke, then it's really, really, embarrassing. Come to think of it, it's embarrassing either way, because so many people, liberal and conservative alike, didn't get the joke.

But I have to give the writers more credit than that. They can't be so totally and utterly clueless, could they be? Singing "To Sir, with Love" to the first black President? That was meant to be a sincere tribute? If it was, then that's very, very sad.


To me, though, it shares something with the Leonard Cohen tribute that made much more news. They both seemed very sweet, and very touching, in their own way. They portrayed their political subjects, Clinton and Obama, positively, but in each case with a downside, a negative edge.

In the case of this skit, Potier/Obama is meant to be a sympathetic figure who inspires devotion from his youthful charges........but it portays Obama supporters as innocent, naïve, children. I just hope they did that on purpose.

In the case of the Cohen tribute, which, let's not forget, was a Cohen tribute, there was this poem about someone who is befuddled, lost, somewhat shell shocked at what life has given him/her, and who doesn't understand it and can't figure it out, but will accept it, and continue to make the music that pleased the Lord and hope someday to figure it out. To my way of thinking, that was a pretty good depiction of Hillary Clinton after the election. I thought it was perfect.

And maybe that's giving the writers way more credit than they deserve.
 
Meadmaker said:
I couldn't help myself. I had to google it.

If the bit was meant to be a joke, a lot of people didn't get it.

If it was not meant to be a joke, then it's really, really, embarrassing. Come to think of it, it's embarrassing either way, because so many people, liberal and conservative alike, didn't get the joke.

But I have to give the writers more credit than that. They can't be so totally and utterly clueless, could they be? Singing "To Sir, with Love" to the first black President? That was meant to be a sincere tribute? If it was, then that's very, very sad.


To me, though, it shares something with the Leonard Cohen tribute that made much more news. They both seemed very sweet, and very touching, in their own way. They portrayed their political subjects, Clinton and Obama, positively, but in each case with a downside, a negative edge.

In the case of this skit, Potier/Obama is meant to be a sympathetic figure who inspires devotion from his youthful charges........but it portays Obama supporters as innocent, naïve, children. I just hope they did that on purpose.

In the case of the Cohen tribute, which, let's not forget, was a Cohen tribute, there was this poem about someone who is befuddled, lost, somewhat shell shocked at what life has given him/her, and who doesn't understand it and can't figure it out, but will accept it, and continue to make the music that pleased the Lord and hope someday to figure it out. To my way of thinking, that was a pretty good depiction of Hillary Clinton after the election. I thought it was perfect.

And maybe that's giving the writers way more credit than they deserve.
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Way, way more than they deserve. I mean it's supposed to be a comedy show, but how often has SNL been funny for the last 30 years? Even their best bits usually have more to do with a comedian doing a really good impression of a celebrity, not good writing per se.
 
sunmaster14 said:
Way, way more than they deserve. I mean it's supposed to be a comedy show, but how often has SNL been funny for the last 30 years? Even their best bits usually have more to do with a comedian doing a really good impression of a celebrity, not good writing per se.
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I will take the season 31 cast against any cast from before 1987.
 
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