Merged Skeptics vs. Knowers/Believers

"A complete lack of any physical evidence" ACTUALLY means nothing, zero, zip, zilch...

Actually, in this case it doesn't. If you read what you just quoted:
"However, as noted by Kolata[4] subsequent archaeological research[6][7], has found a complete lack of any physical evidence, including prehistoric tools and dated midden deposits, for any occupation of the Tiwanaku site as old as argued by Posnansky

It doesn't say there is a complete lack of physical evidence, it says that there is a complete lack of physical evidence of a certain age. That implies that there is actually plenty of physical evidence that just happens to be more recent. Far from suggesting that all the tools evidence magically disappeared, it simply suggests that it may be a more recent construction than previously thought.

Without evidence you don't/can't know who built it.

And since we can't prove exactly who built it, it must have been a bunch of aliens for whom there is no evidence anywhere at all, who live on the bottom of the sea in a highly advanced technological society but decided to head to South America for a holiday to bang some rocks together. Do you really not realise just how insane that sounds? Your claims about Inca ruins don't even support the idea of your submarine aliens who can magically erase all evidence of their existence, since these ruins are neither submarine or erased.

But i'm also sad no one has given arguments against my list of indirect evidences for a foreign intelligence

Because you haven't given any. You've provided evidence of UFOs, but since no-one argues that they don't exist that's really not that impressive. Nothing you have said suggests any kind of intelligence, so there's really nothing to address.
 
You've been shown what tools were used to work stone in ancient times - other stone. You must be easily impressed.

I am working a piece of granite right now. I actually have some first hand knowledge here.

If you think you can re-create the work at Puma Punka with another stone, make it happen, and present your findings here. I'll concede the point, and you'll have my thanks and appreciation.

If you simply don't know who built it, what is it that you are arguing for? It is a moment's work for everyone to agree that you don't know.

My argument is similar to yours, it 'could' have been built by something/someone 'better' than we are, centuries before the Inca.

I reached this possibility based the nature of the work done, and the complete lack of any Inca fingerprints.
 
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Where did 'I' say aliens built it?

Stop. Just stop. Everyone knows that you think it was built by a race of subterranian/submarine aliens who have lived beside us throughout history. Stop pretending otherwise.

The architecture 'looks' Easter Island-ish. Take a 'closer' look at the faces featured.

Oh, yeah, because you are TOTALLY qualified to say that "it looks more like the Easter Islanders than Incans to me", since you have spent so long obtaining your degree in archaeology and ancient architectural design.
Right.

There is NO EVIDENCE whatsoever to date the site.

Pfft. Of course there is. It's BEEN dated. By professional archaeologists with nothing better to do. And, seeing as they generally know what they're talking about and you don't, I'll go with them.

If you think such a site COULD have "easily been done", then grab/construct a bronze age tool and start working. If you can replicate the work, I'll concede the point. Nothing 'strange'...? Talk about willful ignorance...

Thank you for illustrating my point so succinctly. Countless posts have been dedicated to showing you that every bit of Puma Punku could have been constructed through known techniques of ancient stone-carving peoples, yet you continue to deny that it was possible.
Yes, I do call that willful ignorance.

You MUST be super-natural yourself, if you can successfully conclude, beyond ALL reasonable doubt 'anything', "without any evidence whatsoever".

Bravo!

What "evidence"...? Let's have it.

And 'proximity' to the site isn't evidence. Just because I live near a church is NOT evidence that I built it...

WHAT is that "evidence"...?

Actually, King of the Americas, in this case, proximity is evidence. The Incans lived in the area, so they could have built that site without a five-hundred mile trek. They were building other temples at the time, so there's nothing strange about them building this one. The architectural design in Puma Punku is Incan, so they haven't made any weird designs. The stone is fashioned in ways that other ancient stone structures - several by the Incans, by the way - have exhibited and can be demonstrated to be possible using primitive stone tools.

That is the evidence for Incan construction of Puma Punku, all in one handy little text block for you. Perhaps now you'll stop lying out of your *** and saying that there isn't any.

Haven't I answered this already?

I DON'T know who built it, when they built it, or what tools were employed.

I DO know however that granite and diorite are hard enough to resist the intentions of a hardened steel chisel.

Yes, because steel is commonly a 5 on the Mohs scale, while granite is often 6 or 7.

BUT.

No one is implying that steel tools were used. In fact, we are operating under the assumption that only primitive stone tools were used. This means that the stone tools would have, like the rock being carved, been granite rather than steel. Since granite is the same hardness as itself, granite can carve granite.

I DO know that whomever built it had some impressive tools, even by modern standards.

Ah, so now we get to the meat of it. KotA doesn't understand how it could have been done. Therefore he says that aliens did it.
Argument from personal incredulity and argument from ignorance, segueing into the appeal to magic.
There. His argument's bunk, we can all see that, so let's move on people.

Have you reviewed all of the pictures and videos available?

Yes. Have you?
 
I am working a piece of granite right now. I actually have some first hand knowledge here.

Then you should know that it is possible, given enough manpower and time, to carve it into any shape you want.

<snip>

My argument is similar to yours, it 'could' have been built by something/someone 'better' than we are, centuries before the Inca.

I reached this possibility based the nature of the work done, and the complete lack of any Inca fingerprints.

:mgduh

I really, really hope that you don't mean this literally, and that you actually mean "lack of evidence". You're still wrong, but you look less stupid this way.
 
Cuddles,

There's NO EVIDENCE that the site is about 2200 years old. And you think this implies that there IS evidence that it's "younger"...?

WOW.

I'm excited, let's SEE it!

---

I never said aliens 'must have' built it. In fact, I don't use the term 'aliens' at all.
 
Because you haven't given any. You've provided evidence of UFOs, but since no-one argues that they don't exist that's really not that impressive. Nothing you have said suggests any kind of intelligence, so there's really nothing to address.

I'm sorry, but: Did you even read my postings here? I wrote about radar images that show objects which are flying maneuvers that no aircraft is able to do. Some shoot up into the orbit with tremendous speed. Physical crafts. Parallel eye-witnesses say they have seen these objects. Doing Zig zag lines, doing altitude differences of thousands of miles within a second and other maneuvers. No intelligence? One simply cannot explain these phenomena by refering to meteorological things.

so there's really nothing to address.
I have given reference literature where one can see indirect evidence of foreign intelleginces. I don't know why even thousands of close encounters with other beings are don't "suggest any kind of intelligence".

edit: btw, i think you should discuss the question of ancient buildings in a separate thread as this discussion already covers many pages.
 
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Cuddles,

There's NO EVIDENCE that the site is about 2200 years old. And you think this implies that there IS evidence that it's "younger"...?

WOW.

I'm excited, let's SEE it!

You are, again, being deliberately thick. That is not what Cuddles was saying and you know it.

I never said aliens 'must have' built it. In fact, I don't use the term 'aliens' at all.

No, you said that non-human terrestrial sentient beings with hyper-advanced technology did it.

:rolleyes:

Much better.
 
I am working a piece of granite right now. I actually have some first hand knowledge here.

If you think you can re-create the work at Puma Punka with another stone, make it happen, and present your findings here. I'll concede the point, and you'll have my thanks and appreciation.

I'm virtually certain that I can't recreate it. Does that mean that it is impossible for humans to accomplish?

My argument is similar to yours, it 'could' have been built by something/someone 'better' than we are, centuries before the Inca.

I reached this possibility based the nature of the work done, and the complete lack of any Inca fingerprints.

Your argument is nothing at all like mine.
 
I understand what a "disputed charge" is...

You "charge" blimp, Inca builders, or the 200 BC construction date.
I "dispute the charge". It is up to YOU to provide evidence as to the validity of the charge.

Without it, your charge is UNSUBSTANTIATED, period.

I think in this particular case, we can rule out 'Blimps' :rolleyes:
 
No, you said that non-human terrestrial sentient beings with hyper-advanced technology did it.

You missed a bit - non-human terrestrial sentient beings with hyper-advanced technology that leaves traces indistinguishable from human stone age cultures, or possibly no traces at all depending on which nonsensical argument I feel like promoting right at this moment.
 
You missed a bit - non-human terrestrial sentient beings with hyper-advanced technology that leaves traces indistinguishable from human stone age cultures, or possibly no traces at all depending on which nonsensical argument I feel like promoting right at this moment.

Thanks, Cuddles. I've been attacking strawmen this entire time and never even realized it. Now we can get down to real business.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah no.
 
Any thing you say

You see, I want to all you a(n) (enter name/insult that would possibly get me suspended here) because I like to call it like it is. Seems like a duck, talk like a duck, walks like a duck, then it's a duck.

You my dear (enter name/insult that would possibly get me suspended here) took the complete logical way of thinking and turned it into "The alens did it! Hahahahaha!!"

You are the far-fetched one. So YOU must show evidence. To further show that you MUST show evidence for your IMAGINATION to EVERY b considered true, YOU are the only one thinking this crap.

GIVE ME EVIDENCE, OR GIVE ME DEATH!! No wait...that just means I'm dying for no reason because You can't find any evidence anyways.
 
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Believers avoid the great tragedy of Science - they never allow the slaying of a beautiful fantasy by an ugly fact. T. H. Huxley (*), please accept my humble apologies.

I do not expect KotA to accept the evidence. Not even if a "built by Manco Cápac" tag is shown to him (but I would like to be shown wrong) - he'll claim its much younger than the ruins.

Fellows, die-hard hidden or secret archeology people will not accept evidence against their beliefs. For example, its litteraly written in stone who built the pyramids and their purposes. Despite this fact, they keep babbling about pyramids having been built by aliens or some mysterious ancient race or species.

Note that even after being handled some explanations of the reasons why his "indigenous aliens" are highly unlikley, bordering the impossible, KotA keeps talking about them without even caring to attempt building a better case to back his claim. Of course we know it is impossible (OK, highly unlikely).

(*) Here's the original quote: The great tragedy of Science - the slaying of a beautiful hypothesis by an ugly fact.
 
Wow.

Nothing has changed in KoA's life.

Not one iota of new insight, not one hint of a single lesson learned.

This entire thread could be a time capsule from 1999, a static monument to limitless ignorance and grandiose ego. It's truly breathtaking in its intransigence, and applied to a matter of actual substance, might even be described as noble. But as it is, one can call it nothing more than a dog chasing its tail. Discussing logic with such a person is akin to discussing economics with a mollusk, except the mollusk has the good manners to keep its trap shut.

I'll check back in another five years, but I already know what I'll find. Thanks for the chuckles, Albert.
 
You are, again, being deliberately thick. That is not what Cuddles was saying and you know it.



No, you said that non-human terrestrial sentient beings with hyper-advanced technology did it.

:rolleyes:

Much better.

Cuddles should say what 'she' actually meant by her statement.

I don't know who built that site, I merely believe it 'could' have been built by someone who had ability beyond that of early Iron Age meso-americans, and that it 'could' be from a different Age altogether.
 

You see, I want to all you a(n) (enter name/insult that would possibly get me suspended here) because I like to call it like it is. Seems like a duck, talk like a duck, walks like a duck, then it's a duck.

You my dear (enter name/insult that would possibly get me suspended here) took the complete logical way of thinking and turned it into "The alens did it! Hahahahaha!!"

You are the far-fetched one. So YOU must show evidence. To further show that you MUST show evidence for your IMAGINATION to EVERY b considered true, YOU are the only one thinking this crap.

GIVE ME EVIDENCE, OR GIVE ME DEATH!! No wait...that just means I'm dying for no reason because You can't find any evidence anyways.

And what do you think releases the 'skeptic' from these same evidentiary bounds?
 

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