Skepticism and The Normal

Bubblefish has failed to provide any intelligible explanation of what OS 012 is, beyond the fact that it involves categorising ideas as either true, false or "mystery", and has failed to provide any evidence that it is of any use.

When he has made statements that are intelligible, such as his claim that beauty is objective, he has almost invariably been wrong.

Where he has made claims he has either refused to provide evidence supporting them (for example his claim that arguments had crumbled into nothingness in the face of his "third value", or his claim that OS 012 could have prevented the invasion of Iraq) or the claim has, if testable, turned out to be wrong (for example his claim that Aristotle, or even Pythagoras, murdered the man who tried to introduce zero into maths, or his claim that Dr. Lo had published his evidence for the existence of qi in peer-reviewed journals).

When he has been shown to be wrong he has attempted to change his claims by redefining words in a way unsupported by any dictionary, or has claimed that he didn't mean what he had posted. In the case of the claim about Dr. Lo, he resorted to claiming that Dr. Lo had misinformed him: particularly ironic in view of his complaints that people might try to "trash" Dr. Lo, and his threats of legal action over on badscience.

Despite his having having talked extensively about peer-review in his 2005 threads here, and over at badscience, as well as in this thread, it recently turned out that he has no idea what peer-review actually is. He thinks it's something that happens after publication, like a review of a film:
How can something 'pass' peer review if it doenst get published? I dont think any journal would publish a over unity device, it would STILL be considered a hoax. Imagine if the peer reviewed panned it, now the journal looks stupid in the eyes of academia.


He has shown no hesitation in resorting to unprovoked insults, name-calling and ad hom attacks, despite his claim that he only does this as a "tit for tat" response to others doing the same. On the first of this thread he called someone "self-congradulatory" [sic]. He later backtracked on this by claiming that this was a positive thing to say about someone (of course, this may be the case among the sort of Californian media types he normally associates with).

He has persistently, but rather inconsistently, evaded questions by claiming without any apparent justification that they are "magical". When ideas that he has introduced have turned out not to support his position after all, or he has been shown to be wrong on them, he has complained that they are boring.

And he has two dead pigeons in the water tank.

[Basil Fawlty]Otherwise OK?[/Basil Fawlty]

ETA: It is also telling that he objected to having his real name associated with this thread on the grounds, apparently, that it might damage his reputation.
 
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I was in at the beginning of this thread then became an infrequent lurker.

Kudos to all those who have thoroughly, repeatedly, patiently, and logically addressed Bubblefish's comments. It is of benefit to lurkers, imo, and I engage in it myself with a couple of similar posters.

To flimflam: I concur that your deconstruction of ternary logic and demonstration that it is contained within a 2x2 system was masteful.

But I just wanted to say this to help out Mobyseven who in reality doesn't need the help:
It is in fact perfectly possible to have music that does not include any harmony in it,
Try Navajo music, particularly the traditional a capella songs.

You can purchase some modernized versions, much of which is beautiful, but for the simpler, more raw versions, you need to be selective.

From an old memory: try to find a version of "Blessing Way."
 
Or, as BF doesn't seem to understand anything that he hasn't come across, the marching drums as used in European armies.
 
Or, as BF doesn't seem to understand anything that he hasn't come across...

Not only that, but he seems to make no attempt to understand anything. No questions, no curiosity. All he does when confronted with anything outside his sphere of experience or knowledge, which is pretty much everything, he toddles off to Wikipedia or does a few Google searches, looking for something he thinks might support his point of view or, at least, confuse the issue further. Then he regurgitates it in butchered, unintelligible form in this thread.
BF reminds me of someone who mistakes his rudimentary knowledge of a foreign language for expert knowledge. He can make a half-baked statement in the language but he doesn't understand any responses. Eventually, when all else fails (which it clearly has done several times) he resorts to flailing about and shouting ad homs, and generally losing it. In all respects, on every subject, he's shown himself to be completely out of his depth, and somehow he thinks digging deeper will disguise the fact - when it only serves to illuminate it even more.
I expect he'll be back with his shovel to demonstrate/illuminate the point further (not that any further demonstration or illumination is really necessary) in due course!
 
Good Evening all.

I really want to apologize for my state of mind last night and any affects it may have had last night on anyone here. I don’t feel right about it. Truth is, I have been swamped with work and organizing teams of people and directing them, and have felt some pressure for the responsibility, and last night sort of used the forum as a way to blow of steam. Last night, I was frustrated! That doesn’t happen very much, I usually enjoy the process. But when I came here and saw some of the same arguments over and over, ones which have been addressed on many occasions, it just ticked a nerve and away I went.

I am going to respond to more posts later, this next week or two is packed, and we also need to organize this discussion a bit too, consider, I have a dozen arguments to address everytime I sit down, it’s allot of mental work for me. We need to streamline this discussion so all of us can see what each other means.

Does anyone here care to see what I mean?

BF
 
It wasn't just last night, though, was it? You have scattered your posts with offensive remarks about other posters.
 
Could I just add to JQH's post by noting that the sudden apparent switch to a reasonableness is a tactic that Bubb employed over at badscience.net. The thread briefly gained an air of civility before the tone dropped again. This was in no small part because, although he temporarily laid off the invective, Bubb still didn't really engage with the discussion.

I think that Bubb knows that he has now pushed it too far by admitting that (i) he judges the value of a thread by its length, with a longer thread indicating success for him and, (ii) he will keep posting until everyone agrees with him. Although I can't say whether Bubb actually believes what he writes or if he's just trolling, I think we can say that his primary aim is not to actually discuss anything, but merely keep people in the thread for as long as possible without resolution.

The "Does anyone here care to see what I mean?", is a fairly unsubtle device to draw people back into the discussion or, failing that, to justify a claim that it is us who are being unreasonable by failing to see his point of view. Given that we have had several months and well over 100 pages on this forum and others for him to make his meaning clear, and that he has conspicuously failed to do so, I think it can safely be ignored.
 
Well, if I interpret what he's been saying right, here's what Bubb is hoping for:

1) We all admit he's right - which he can then crow as a crowning achievement for OS012. We all join his cult of mystery and become members of his vast forum alongside Miss Tree and others.
2) We all leave - which he can then crow as a crowning achievement for OS012, as his arguments have driven us all to slink away, unable to face his inevitable truths.
3) He gets banned, or this thread locked down - which he can then crow as a crowning achievement for OS012, as his arguments have driven the moderators to attempt to suppress the inevitable truth of OS012.
4) We continue this discussion endlessly - which he can then crow as a crowning achievement for OS012, as his arguments are so compelling that we cannot stop discussing them.

In other words, he IS developing a win-win situation - for himself.

As far as I can figger, the most logical response would be simply to summarize, as Flim did above, what is wrong with this thread, why you disagree with his conclusions or arguments, and how you feel he will probably attempt to respond. Think like Rome for a moment and put forth what you suspect his attempted and pointless rebuttal will be. Then stop posting.

If enough of you do that, he'll be left either a) being predictable and doing what at least one of you said - which will transparently demonstrate that one or more of you HAS figured him out; b) finally coming up with a new argument that might be worth discussing; or c) continuing to troll on with more 'not responding to magical arguments' type nonsense, which transparently reveals his trollish behavior. It will also leave him arguing with newbies - or, hopefully, the vacuum itself.

I believe that the summaries will be the thing that visitors and passers-by notice, rather than his immature and childish trolling. It will be clear to lookers-on that others HAVE parsed his meanings and reached viable conclusions about the silly, contradictory, and pointless nature of his arguments, as well as the immature and contrary nature of Rome himself. So Rome might crow a 'win' since everyone has left, but since there would be within the thread precise statements of how Rome is wrong, and Rome unable to rebutt even the first of these, I think the results will stand for themselves.

As it is, looking at the pattern of posting traffic on his own forum is pretty revealing - other than two or three cultists, his forum is a wasteland. If that doesn't reveal the lack of success of OS012, I don't know what will.
 
As far as I can figger, the most logical response would be simply to summarize, as Flim did above, what is wrong with this thread, why you disagree with his conclusions or arguments, and how you feel he will probably attempt to respond. Think like Rome for a moment and put forth what you suspect his attempted and pointless rebuttal will be. Then stop posting.

I disagree. I think that if ever a thread called out for recipies and kitten pictures, this is it. If Bubblefish thinks that the length of a thread is a measure of its sophisticated discussion, then padding this thread with another fifty pages of completely off-topic gibberish should keep him happy -- and perhaps more importantly, help provide a thorough debunking of the idea that we were somehow unable to resist an in-depth discussion of his ideas.
 
I disagree. I think that if ever a thread called out for recipies and kitten pictures, this is it. If Bubblefish thinks that the length of a thread is a measure of its sophisticated discussion, then padding this thread with another fifty pages of completely off-topic gibberish should keep him happy -- and perhaps more importantly, help provide a thorough debunking of the idea that we were somehow unable to resist an in-depth discussion of his ideas.

An interesting theory, but IMHO, that amounts to trolling as well. Counter-trolling, I suppose. It's like stooping to the troll's level to do such. Witty and ascerbic commentary is about as low as I prefer to stoop... bad back, you know.
 
Good Evening all.

I really want to apologize for my state of mind last night and any affects it may have had last night on anyone here. I don’t feel right about it. Truth is, I have been swamped with work and organizing teams of people and directing them, and have felt some pressure for the responsibility, and last night sort of used the forum as a way to blow of steam. Last night, I was frustrated! That doesn’t happen very much, I usually enjoy the process. But when I came here and saw some of the same arguments over and over, ones which have been addressed on many occasions, it just ticked a nerve and away I went.

I am going to respond to more posts later, this next week or two is packed, and we also need to organize this discussion a bit too, consider, I have a dozen arguments to address everytime I sit down, it’s allot of mental work for me. We need to streamline this discussion so all of us can see what each other means.

Does anyone here care to see what I mean?

BF

I read this this morning and all I could think of was how pathetically predictable. Nothing more than the usual invitation to stick around and suffer his condescending, illiterate verbiage (which he, even now, can't be bothered to spell correctly).
Yes, Bub's feigning victim/reasonableness again, just like he always does when he's gone more over the top than usual. If he were to be even remotely reasonable though he would admit the horse manure nature of his ramblings and give it up. Trouble is, "reasonable" isn't in his vocabulary. "Trolling", however, is almost certainly in his vocabulary. :mad:
 
I disagree. I think that if ever a thread called out for recipies and kitten pictures, this is it. If Bubblefish thinks that the length of a thread is a measure of its sophisticated discussion, then padding this thread with another fifty pages of completely off-topic gibberish should keep him happy -- and perhaps more importantly, help provide a thorough debunking of the idea that we were somehow unable to resist an in-depth discussion of his ideas.
Well, we could resume the MC tournament we had going earlier.
 
I read this this morning and all I could think of was how pathetically predictable.
Note also that while he starts the post by announcing an intention to apologize, he never quite does so; he just posts a whole load of excuses.
 
Note also that while he starts the post by announcing an intention to apologize, he never quite does so; he just posts a whole load of excuses.

Yes, absolutely typical.

I was reviewing the first page of this thread, in case there was anything I could add to the summaries posted so far, and there, right at the start, was an example of his complete inability to admit a mistake. He misunderstood a comment in the very first response, but when this was pointed out he again misunderstood. When the meaning was made clear, he wriggled, trying to maintain that his response was equally valid for the correct interpretation or his mistaken one (it wasn't).

He also apparently forgets what he's said. It may be partly the nature of the quoting mechanism here (is there an easy way to quote more than just the message you are replying to, i.e. include quotes from that too?), but you're replying to a point he made a couple of posts back, and he'll ask why you've introduced a certain term, when he was the one who did that.

Full summary still pending.
 
Note also that while he starts the post by announcing an intention to apologize, he never quite does so; he just posts a whole load of excuses.

It's all trolling tactics if you ask me, to get the thing to go round one more time. He'll be back!
 
It's all trolling tactics if you ask me, to get the thing to go round one more time. He'll be back!

Oh, yes, fully agree. I wish I could put my finger on exactly why I find the tone of these conciliatory posts of his so false, though. He does have a knack of pushing buttons to get a continued response, and seeming reasonable at first sight (so that newcomers will engage him when the thread is otherwise dying).
 
I disagree. I think that if ever a thread called out for recipies and kitten pictures, this is it. If Bubblefish thinks that the length of a thread is a measure of its sophisticated discussion, then padding this thread with another fifty pages of completely off-topic gibberish should keep him happy -- and perhaps more importantly, help provide a thorough debunking of the idea that we were somehow unable to resist an in-depth discussion of his ideas.


Well, we could resume the MC tournament we had going earlier.

How about recipes:

Chocolate Roulade:

Greasproof paper, and swiss roll tin

6oz (180g) plain Chocolate (70%)
6oz (180g) sugar
5 medium eggs

5fl oz double cream (for the filling)
Icing sugar to dust

Separate the eggs, and whip the whites until stiff
Cream the yolks and sugar
Melt the chocolate gently over water and mix into the creamed yolks.

Fold in the whisked whites
Pour into the swiss roll tin, previously covered in greasproof paper

Bake at 180°C for 15-20 mins

take out, roll up in a teatowl and allow to cool
unroll, spread the double cream on and dust with icing sugar to taste.
​
One of my favourite recipes, the result looks realy professional for not much effort

Jim
 

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