Simplifying Conspiracy Theories

[Brainache]

I can't imagine a more convoluted plot than the Osama and the 19 Dwarves boxcutter plot that was prepared for years, and sold to the TV mezmorized and brain poisoned US public.

Aren't you the guy who said that a secret evil cabal of international bankers have been plotting and scheming for centuries to enslave us all? Creating false flag attacks all over the place and leaving behind little clues for well read and clever people like yourself to discover so that they can laugh in your face when you try to bring the TRUTH to the public?

That seems a bit more convoluted than pissed off Muslims buying knives and plane tickets to me.

911 was a multi billion dollar extravaganza, making it the biggest budget film ever made. The special effects were pheonomenal!! The producers have recovered their money at a 10-1 ratio and still counting in their "War on Terror" fraud. The idiot box has turned a large percentage of our citizens into de-facto mental retards. Turn it off....tune in...and take your country back...Thanks


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article24428.htm

You watch a lot of TV don't you?

 

[Cuddles]

I can't imagine a more convoluted plot

This is a point I've brought up before. It's often suggested that various conspiracies and general paranormal stuff is believed because the proponents have over-active imaginations and are good at making things up. In fact, it's the exact opposite. As jmh423 says himself, he simply can't imagine a realistic scenario. A black and white situation with cartoon villains, all carried out by a monolithic entity within his own country by people like him, except evil, is something he can understand. A more messy situation involving different cultures, numerous individual people, groups, and departments, cock-ups, coincidences, and so on, is something that he can't even conceive of, let alone actually understand.

Woos love to criticise skeptics for being all dry and sciency with no imagination, but it's actually the woos who fail on the imagination front. Blindly repeating simplistic stories that someone else fed to you is not imagination.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I can't imagine a more convoluted plot than the Osama and the 19 Dwarves boxcutter plot that was prepared for years, and sold to the TV mezmorized and brain poisoned US public.

Really? You implicitly promote one with every post you make. So, it's not that you can't imagine one; it's that you're incapable of seeing the complexities in the plot you believe happened.

That means there's something wrong with you, not us.

 

[dudalb]

MaGZ, our resident Neo Nazi, manages a double header for simplifying conspiracy theories with this from the History section:

The Jews allowed 9/11 to happen and the Holocaust never happened.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

MaGZ, our resident Neo Nazi, manages a double header for simplifying conspiracy theories with this from the History section:

Oooo... But what if the Jews allowed the Holocaust to happen and 9/11 never happened?

 

[ZirconBlue]

I can't imagine a more convoluted plot than the Osama and the 19 Dwarves boxcutter plot that was prepared for years, and sold to the TV mezmorized and brain poisoned US public.

Clearly, you've never seen any of the films of Francesa Fiore and Bruno Puntz Jones.

 

[Horatius]

Clearly, you've never seen any of the films of Francesa Fiore and Bruno Puntz Jones.

I love you, man. [/GuyCrush]



ETA:

 

[Thunder]

I can't imagine a more convoluted plot than the Osama and the 19 Dwarves http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article24428.htm

why can't you acknowledge that Arabs are human beings?

 

[Horatius]

why can't you acknowledge that Arabs are human beings?

It's too convoluted.

 

[ZirconBlue]

I love you, man. [/GuyCrush]

Thanks. I haven't actually seen it in years. I really need to get the DVDs.

 

[timhau]

Aren't you the guy who said that a secret evil cabal of international bankers have been plotting and scheming for centuries to enslave us all?

Message to the secret evil cabal of international bankers: GET ON WITH IT, you lazy s. How much more time do you guys need?

 

[Belz...]

Thus conspiracy theories take on similarities to religions. With a religion, unexplained random events are actually acts of god - i.e. "someone" out there caused the event, there is no "randomness".

Yes, and it's actually more comforting to "know" that the conspiracy is true than to think that such attacks can happen anytime, anywhere.

The CTer keeps a level of "control" over the events by understanding them on his own terms.

 

[sadhatter]

I can't imagine a more convoluted plot than the Osama and the 19 Dwarves boxcutter plot that was prepared for years, and sold to the TV mezmorized and brain poisoned US public. 911 was a multi billion dollar extravaganza, making it the biggest budget film ever made. The special effects were pheonomenal!! The producers have recovered their money at a 10-1 ratio and still counting in their "War on Terror" fraud. The idiot box has turned a large percentage of our citizens into de-facto mental retards. Turn it off....tune in...and take your country back...Thanks


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article24428.htm

Ahem.

People from a country that values sacrificing ones life and that is known for using simple yet effective methods, and that coincidentally the united states has been crapping on , use a simple yet effective method to complete a task.

versus

A giant evil organization that can control anyone , except a 20 something with access to youtube.

Oh yeah i see , btw as a question, do you understand what the word convoluted means?

 

[Aoidoi]

On the general concept of the thread... how could you make the hijacker's plan simpler? You could decrease the number of planes/targets/individuals, but if you have the people doing it all at once increases your chances of at least one successful attack.

Increased number of people increases the chances of detection, but if they were detected early the groups would not necessarily implicate one another, so even if they caught one group of 5 all those had to do would be keep their mouths shut and the rest would still be good to go (or able to reschedule).

What in the plan is unnecessarily complex? It's really pretty simple, when you think about it. 19 men who need tourist visas, a few get flying lessons... and then you pick a day and have them hijack planes with weapons that are allowed through security. No step is terribly complicated in itself, and you can't really skip any to get the same results. Even crashing the planes is a success, and worst case you lose 19 guys you plan on losing anyway.

Minimal exposure, maximum return on investment... seems like a pretty solid plan.

 

[dtugg]

On the general concept of the thread... how could you make the hijacker's plan simpler? You could decrease the number of planes/targets/individuals, but if you have the people doing it all at once increases your chances of at least one successful attack.

Increased number of people increases the chances of detection, but if they were detected early the groups would not necessarily implicate one another, so even if they caught one group of 5 all those had to do would be keep their mouths shut and the rest would still be good to go (or able to reschedule).

What in the plan is unnecessarily complex? It's really pretty simple, when you think about it. 19 men who need tourist visas, a few get flying lessons... and then you pick a day and have them hijack planes with weapons that are allowed through security. No step is terribly complicated in itself, and you can't really skip any to get the same results. Even crashing the planes is a success, and worst case you lose 19 guys you plan on losing anyway.

Minimal exposure, maximum return on investment... seems like a pretty solid plan.

Yeah, I cannot think of a simpler way for 19 terrorists to cause so much death and destruction.

 

[Jono]

Any other conspiracy theories where you can just knock out big parts of the usual theories without impacting the overall "THEY were behind it!" thinking?

One of the most common aspects observable with conspiracy theories and theorists is that they are big on biting their own tail on the details, i.e they try to mesh together almost mutually exclusive arguments. This becomes even moreso a problem when the 'theoretician' entertains several different theories and believes them all (which they usually do). A classic example often noted on; the Moon Landing couldn't have happend because they didn't have the technology back then. But... they did have UFO-technology and advanced weaponry, tesla'ascribed tapping of ZPE etc etc.

 

[Dave Rogers]

What in the plan is unnecessarily complex? It's really pretty simple, when you think about it. 19 men who need tourist visas, a few get flying lessons... and then you pick a day and have them hijack planes with weapons that are allowed through security. No step is terribly complicated in itself, and you can't really skip any to get the same results. Even crashing the planes is a success, and worst case you lose 19 guys you plan on losing anyway.

Minimal exposure, maximum return on investment... seems like a pretty solid plan.

You're missing the point. Anything said by a debunker that contradicts the conspiracy theory must immediately be denied, whether the denial has any basis in logic, fact or common sense. Therefore, the conspiracy theorist, when faced with a very simple scenario, must convince himself that this scenario is in some sense complicated, even if he can neither perceive or articulate that complication. I'm sure there are conspiracy theorists out there who believe that the idea of a lone, disgruntled loser taking potshots with a cheap rifle is somehow a vastly more complex scenario than a massive conspiracy involving the CIA, the medical establishment, the Dallas police, the entire judiciary and members of the Bush family. Their conclusion demands that the simple theory is more complicated than the complex theory, therefore they believe it; and they're so self-deluded that they can't understand why the rest of us don't believe it too.

Dave

 

[Aoidoi]

Admittedly I'm trying to apply logic theories notoriously resistant to it. Mostly I'm just asking questions.

I find identifying flaws in cognition is a worthwhile exercise. Not just that someone is wrong, but why they reached a wrong conclusion. It makes absurdities more understandable when you can see what they are built upon. My attempt to fit the surreal into an understandable framework.

 

[Dave Rogers]

I find identifying flaws in cognition is a worthwhile exercise. Not just that someone is wrong, but why they reached a wrong conclusion. It makes absurdities more understandable when you can see what they are built upon. My attempt to fit the surreal into an understandable framework.

That, I think, is really the motivation for us all. It's fascinating to see how people can delude themselves so completely, even to the point of believing that anyone disagreeing with them is himself deluded.

Dave

 

[Jono]

I can't imagine a more convoluted plot than the Osama and the 19 Dwarves boxcutter plot that was prepared for years, and sold to the TV mezmorized and brain poisoned US public.

Please elaborate mr Journal.