Simplifying Conspiracy Theories

[Horatius]

If the planes had crashed into empty warehouses, no-one would have questioned the cause.

Well, I for one would have been asking, "WTF were they thinking? Why a warehouse, and not something impressive, like the Sears Tower?"

 

[Alareth]

Simplicity is the antithesis of conspiracy theory

 

[mythstifieD]

I ascribe this to the Conspiracy Theorist tendency to conflate "good story telling" with "plausibility." They think that something being more interesting somehow means it's more likely to be true.

Depends.

I find true things quite interesting!

 

[Travis]

Depends.

I find true things quite interesting!

Yes, but you also probably don't giggle when you say the word "boobies."

 

[dudalb]

I was thinking the same thing. Because they have seen whatever James Bond villain taking the trouble to explain the whole evil plan, and then put him below a slowly-moving laser cutter (instead of just shooting him), that's what the real evil guys do in real life. "No Mr. Bond. I expect you to die!" Maybe a lot of the conspiracy mindset is rooted in confusing fantasy with reality? Too much TV? Maybe this is why we see a lot of videos 'proving' things, but not a lot of the people posting the videos are able to articulate a cogent thought here at the JREF.

I am a big 007 fan, but I understand the films are as much fantasy as far as reality goes as the "Lord of the Rings". The tinfoilers seem to have problems with that.
Currently the CT/Tinfoil favorites are "The Matrix" and "V For Vendetta" for obvious reasons.
The 9/11 Truthers in particular are obssesed by "The Matrix". "Take the Red Pill" is a huge meme for the Truth Movement.
And I wish I had dime for every Tinfoiler who has "Guy Fawkes" from "Vendetta" as a avatar........

 

[Alferd_Packer]

And I wish I had dime for every Tinfoiler who has "Guy Fawkes" from "Vendetta" as a avatar........

Who can forget the video of Kevin Barrett in a V mask dancing around the steps of a campus building in Madison passing out truther leaflets.

 

[Cuddles]

And indeed, there are "Truthers" I've dealt with who propose LIHOP plus controlled demolition.

The thing is, hollywood has convoluted plots, so people expect plots to be convoluted, hence when a theory is posited that is convoluted, they tend to believe.

I don't think it's actually that one causes the other, it's that both have a common cause - people enjoy a good story. Hollywood doesn't force people to think a certain way, it simply caters to the way they already think in an effort to persuade them to hand over their money. It's not that Hollywood has led people to expect convoluted plots, it's that people find convoluted plots appealing, therefore both Hollywood and conspiracy theorists provide them.

 

[Horatius]

.... it's that people find convoluted plots appealing, therefore both Hollywood and conspiracy theorists provide them.

That's exactly right.


I just watched the two episodes of Dollhouse that aired recently, and felt a surge of Whedonesque joy at

Holy ****! Boyd is the bad guy?!?!?!

It's just exactly what Cuddles is talking about.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

Simplicity is the antithesis of conspiracy theory

It is pretty odd (to me, anyway) that conspiracy theorists conjure up these horribly complicated fantasies in an attempt to simplify the world around them.

I think it says something, but I'm not quite sure what. Perhaps that these people actually find these stories, for all their complexities and absurdities, more comprehensible than reality.

Yes, but you also probably don't giggle when you say the word "boobies."

What about when you read the word?

 

[carlitos]

I am a big 007 fan, but I understand the films are as much fantasy as far as reality goes as the "Lord of the Rings". The tinfoilers seem to have problems with that.
Currently the CT/Tinfoil favorites are "The Matrix" and "V For Vendetta" for obvious reasons.
The 9/11 Truthers in particular are obssesed by "The Matrix". "Take the Red Pill" is a huge meme for the Truth Movement.
And I wish I had dime for every Tinfoiler who has "Guy Fawkes" from "Vendetta" as a avatar........

I could not get through "The Matrix." Fell asleep. Keanu Reaves peaked creatively in "Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure."

 

[Aoidoi]

The Matrix, like most conspiracy theories, fails at simplicity. Using human beings as batteries is an idiotic concept. The entire premise fails at that point, there is no reason for batteries to have minds, thus no need for the Matrix. If there's no point to the Matrix, then Neo is a brain dead bag of meat.

Dollhouse does better at the basic premise with the attic, in which people in comas are used as a computer mainframe. This at least gives some justification to keeping them alive and with brains continuing to function. The unnecessary complexity in Dollhouse seems to be that the motives of the Rossum founders are either inexplicable or insane. There seems to be little point to most of their actions as shown, and much more straightforward methods to take over the world if they were so inclined. But at least it's interesting to watch.

 

[carlitos]

****, the people were batteries? I might have to watch this again, I missed something.

 

[Aoidoi]

That was Morphius's explanation in the film. With nice product placement for Duracell, as I recall.

He could be wrong, but the film never says so.

There's also the small issue that the machines deliberately allow disgruntled people to escape the Matrix and found another society instead of just killing them, though I believe that part is only explicit in the later films.

 

[Horatius]

That was Morphius's explanation in the film. With nice product placement for Duracell, as I recall.

I seem to recall one of them dismissively referring to Neo as "Coppertop" at one point before he leaves the Matrix.

 

[carlitos]

He left the Matrix? Now that it's ruined, I'll never see it again.

 

[Horatius]

He left the Matrix? Now that it's ruined, I'll never see it again.

And you'll thank me.

 

[Cuddles]

If there's no point to the Matrix, then Neo is a brain dead bag of meat.

Which, given that he is played by Keanu Reeves, seems rather appropriate.

He could be wrong, but the film never says so.

The sequels make it pretty explicit that everything Morpheus believed is completely wrong. It's not the year he thinks it is, Zion doesn't exist for the reasons he thinks, the Oracle isn't on their side, and Neo doesn't exist for the reasons he thinks. Given that he's wrong about pretty much all their actions, it would seem rather unlikely that the one thing he got right was the machine's motives.

I think the Matrix films are a lot better if you don't look at it as telling the viewer exactly what's going on, but instead take it as told from the point of view of the humans, who don't really have much idea what's going on at all. Some bits are right, some bits are completely wrong, and other bits are somewhere in the middle, some of it's accidental, some of it's deliberate deception.

There's also the small issue that the machines deliberately allow disgruntled people to escape the Matrix and found another society instead of just killing them, though I believe that part is only explicit in the later films.

In fact, that's explained to be the whole point of the films. It turns out that the Matrix was as buggy as a fresh Windows release and needs a human operator to give it a good kick every now and then.

 

[eutychus]

In fact, that's explained to be the whole point of the films. It turns out that the Matrix was as buggy as a fresh Windows release and needs a human operator to give it a good kick every now and then.

So, in effect, Agent Smith was just a Blue Screen of Death.

 

[jmh423]

The thing is, hollywood has convoluted plots, so people expect plots to be convoluted, hence when a theory is posited that is convoluted, they tend to believe.

It all boils down to Jones , ( or whatever flavor of the day is there) saying " life is like a movie" which is up there with " you live forever" as a list of things people would want to hear. I mean what is more interesting , a Scanner Darkly or my life?

I can't imagine a more convoluted plot than the Osama and the 19 Dwarves boxcutter plot that was prepared for years, and sold to the TV mezmorized and brain poisoned US public. 911 was a multi billion dollar extravaganza, making it the biggest budget film ever made. The special effects were pheonomenal!! The producers have recovered their money at a 10-1 ratio and still counting in their "War on Terror" fraud. The idiot box has turned a large percentage of our citizens into de-facto mental retards. Turn it off....tune in...and take your country back...Thanks


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article24428.htm

 

[Doctor Evil]

I can't imagine a more convoluted plot than the Osama and the 19 Dwarves boxcutter plot that was prepared for years, and sold to the TV mezmorized and brain poisoned US public.

Dwarves?? Is this some Tolkien book I somehow did not read?

It must be, cause otherwise this makes no sense whatsoever.