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Simple question for Bigfoot enthusiasts: Why no unambiguous photos/videos?

Don't point things at Bigfoot... It will run duck and cover.

That would include cameras.
 
King of the Americas said:
IF...IF...Bigfoot exists, it is only because they have eluded humankind altogether. Maybe there was a war between us and them, and they went unground, not literally. If we hunted and killed all of them or everyone we saw, they could have decide to avoid us altogether. Maybe our scent, motion cameras, hunting blinds, jeep trails, or even boot prints 'taint' an area...?

Take a flight over America...it looks like there's a lot more wilderness than 'urbanized' acreage. There's plenty of room to hide a highly mobile population that knows how to avoid being hunted successfully.
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Such a "war" would have left remains: bigfoot skulls fractured by hand axes, bigfoot ribs cracked by flint-tipped spears. Human skulls with bigfoot toothmarks gouged out of the bone. As Greg has noted, there is no fossil evidence of bigfoot whatsoever, let alone fossil evidence attesting to the kind of violent interspecies conflict you suggest. It's a fun fantasy to imagine, and would make a fine Roland Emmerich film, but there's no reason to believe it ever actually happened.

As to flying over the US to observe vast tracts of wilderness, has it occurred to you that that same wilderness has been and is being explored, analyzed and catalogued on a monthly if not daily basis by 1) hunters, 2) amateur wildlife enthusiasts such as birdwatchers, 3) professional botanists, 4) professional zoologists, 5) the proprietors of the land in question, 6) government officials, both state and federal, including park rangers, wildlife conservationists and land surveyors? I'm sure I missed a few categories there. No to mention that satellite photography has mapped the world from space down to the size of a fallen log? I don't mean any disrespect, I just don't think you've thought this idea through.
 
Skeptical Greg said:
....And, not one, out of what must be hundreds, to maintain a breeding population, has ever been stupid enough, or unlucky enough to get caught, or leave their skin and bones behind ?

Not one ? !

Yeah, riiiight ....
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Maybe they kill off their 'stupid' young, not unlike the Spartans did their weak.

Instead of a "Hill of Skulls", maybe they found a "pit for the dumb"

That, and like I said above nature is a BIG place.
 
Vortigern99 said:
Such a "war" would have left remains: bigfoot skulls fractured by hand axes, bigfoot ribs cracked by flint-tipped spears. Human skulls with bigfoot toothmarks gouged out of the bone. As Greg has noted, there is no fossil evidence of bigfoot whatsoever, let alone fossil evidence attesting to the kind of violent interspecies conflict you suggest. It's a fun fantasy to imagine, and would make a fine Roland Emmerich film, but there's no reason to believe it ever actually happened.

As to flying over the US to observe vast tracts of wilderness, has it occurred to you that that same wilderness has been and is being explored, analyzed and catalogued on a monthly if not daily basis by 1) hunters, 2) amateur wildlife enthusiasts such as birdwatchers, 3) professional botanists, 4) professional zoologists, 5) the proprietors of the land in question, 6) government officials, both state and federal, including park rangers, wildlife conservationists and land surveyors? I'm sure I missed a few categories there. No to mention that satellite photography has mapped the world from space down to the size of a fallen log? I don't mean any disrespect, I just don't think you've thought this idea through.
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But even if you had ALL those people in the 'wilds' at the same time, you'd still have plenty of room to move undetected...

Now that said, 'people' DO claim to have seen them, but THAT doesn't count as evidence.

There's NO fossil evidence of a "Gigantopithecus blacki"...Really?

What's this jaw bone from then:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigantopithecus_blacki
 
King of Americas, please point to evidence for a North American bipedal omnivorous hominin man-ape in the following facts, or any others you care to share with us about genus Gigantopithecus, an Asian pongid (non-hominin) possibly-but-probably-not-bipedal bamboo-eating ape ancestor:

Gigantopithecus bilapurensis (9 mya - 6 mya: Asia [India]) Similar, and possibly ancestral, to G. blacki (see below). Jawbone and teeth only specimens.

Gigantopithecus blacki (1 mya - 100 kya: Asia [China, Vietnam]) Possibly ~9' tall based on size of jawbone and teeth, but owing to wide interspecies differences in the relationship between tooth and body size, some argue G. blacki was much smaller, ~6'. Probably vegetarian; diet of bamboo, foliage, fruits, seeds. Canines neither pointed nor sharp, incisors small, close and peglike. Possibly bipedal owing to U-shape and width of jaw, though this is debated. Jawbone and teeth only specimens. Bamboo forests probable habitat, like that of modern panda. Probable descendant of Sivapithecus, but not believed to be ancestor of modern orangutan.

Gigantopithecus giganteus (6 mya: Asia [India and China]) Similar to G. blacki in most respects, but likely half the size based on the size of jawbones and teeth, which are the only specimens. Also, possible carnivore owing to fossil remains of another species found inside a certain specimen.
 
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As to your other absurdist fantasies....

King of the Americas said:
But even if you had ALL those people in the 'wilds' at the same time, you'd still have plenty of room to move undetected...

Now that said, 'people' DO claim to have seen them, but THAT doesn't count as evidence.
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"Undetected"? 7 - 10-foot tall behemoth wood apes,with skunk-stink, noisy vocalizations and a need to consume 8000+ calories per day are going "undetected" in the wilderness of North America? Thousands of them, a viable breeding population? While people are actively out looking for them (that was one category of forester I failed to mention in my last post: Bigfoot enthusiasts)? With game-cams in place in most state parks? Why aren't the seven categories of people I've mentioned -- plus recreational campers, another class of woodland explorer -- why aren't they all finding convincing prints, stool and hair samples, clear evidence of feeding, and carcasses? Why aren't paleontologists finding fossils? The simple answer is that bigfeet are going "undetected" because they aren't there, not because they're hiding not only their own living selves (a behavior which no ape does, BTW) but also every shred of evidence that they exist, from anyone with a modicum of scientific training. It staggers the imagination and defies all credulity.

May I suggest that you read the first 5-10 pages of this thread, in which kitikaze's (and others') line of reasoning gradually but decisively withers away my own thoughtful rebuttals and "but the PNW is so big" logic? Once you examine all the facts, King, it just doesn't add up.
 
King of the Americas said:
Maybe they kill off their 'stupid' young, not unlike the Spartans did their weak.

Instead of a "Hill of Skulls", maybe they found a "pit for the dumb"

That, and like I said above nature is a BIG place.
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Why the mental gymnastics for something that is easily explainable? Everything submitted as evidence for Bigfoot thus far fits quite nicely with a social construct.

KotA, I'm going to ask you a very simple question that I have asked tons of Bigfoot enthusiasts and to date have never had one even attempt to answer. First let's talk about what we're dealing with...

Bigfoot enthusiasts describe a massive upright bipedal wood ape that is usually described between 7-10 feet tall with varying physiques from the lardass you see in the PGF to more pencilneck Don Knots types. The most common description is those that have physiques like The Hulk or Sasquatch from Marvel Comics. The creature is reported in every corner of North America and all points in between. It is said to be primarily bipedal but many also claim to see them able to go into a "4x4" quadrupedal mode. They are said to do various things such as scream like dying women, howl, roar louder than a jet plane, speak their own language, emanate infrasound to incapacitate humans, often release a powerful overwhelming stench, throw objects like pinecones, rocks, boulders and various animals. Most believe they are omnivorous and hunt game such as deer. They are not believed to hibernate and groups like the BFRO publish many of what they claim are winter tracks.

These creatures that may well be the largest land mammals in North America are often said to approach human habitations and live in recreational parks such as Ohio's Salt Fork State park. These animals based on their size and primate nature are going to require roughly 12,000kcal/day. Without going into a winter torpor such as bears do and without the array of specialized ursid adaptions of North American bears (large, elongated snouts harbouring one of the world's most highly developed senses of smells, massive claws for digging to find various food sources, highly attuned hearing, night vision, specialized sharp teeth) these creatures must rely on some other abilities to locate the massive amount of calories they need to feed the huge bulk. Bigfoot enthusiasts contend that intelligence is that primary ability. They often talk about Bigfoot approaching human food sources such as dumpsters. These animals must conform to biological reality. They have to feed, they have to establish territories, they have to find eachother, they have to communicate, they have to compete for mates, they have to mate, they have to give birth, raise young, teach them survival behaviours, they have to occasionally get sick or injured, they have to die, and they have to decay, becoming part of the ecosystem in which they live.

They have to do all these things and at no point from the beginning of the cohabitation and competition with humans for resources every provided one single shred of their existence that we can look at now. Unlike the rarest and most elusive mammals such as kermode bear or Javan rhino, these creatures have never been caught on any unambiguous images that we can see such as those for all the creatures shown in the OP.

My question for you, then, KotA, is what is the precedence for a massive relatively slow-moving land mammal to exist all across two of the most industrialized nations on Earth, often coming within human inhabited areas and displaying agressive behaviour toward humans, and yet eluding being catalogued by modern science for hundreds of years?
 
kitakaze said:
Why the mental gymnastics for something that is easily explainable? Everything submitted as evidence for Bigfoot thus far fits quite nicely with a social construct.

KotA, I'm going to ask you a very simple question that I have asked tons of Bigfoot enthusiasts and to date have never had one even attempt to answer. First let's talk about what we're dealing with...

Bigfoot enthusiasts describe a massive upright bipedal wood ape that is usually described between 7-10 feet tall with varying physiques from the lardass you see in the PGF to more pencilneck Don Knots types. The most common description is those that have physiques like The Hulk or Sasquatch from Marvel Comics. The creature is reported in every corner of North America and all points in between. It is said to be primarily bipedal but many also claim to see them able to go into a "4x4" quadrupedal mode. They are said to do various things such as scream like dying women, howl, roar louder than a jet plane, speak their own language, emanate infrasound to incapacitate humans, often release a powerful overwhelming stench, throw objects like pinecones, rocks, boulders and various animals. Most believe they are omnivorous and hunt game such as deer. They are not believed to hibernate and groups like the BFRO publish many of what they claim are winter tracks.

These creatures that may well be the largest land mammals in North America are often said to approach human habitations and live in recreational parks such as Ohio's Salt Fork State park. These animals based on their size and primate nature are going to require roughly 12,000kcal/day. Without going into a winter torpor such as bears do and without the array of specialized ursid adaptions of North American bears (large, elongated snouts harbouring one of the world's most highly developed senses of smells, massive claws for digging to find various food sources, highly attuned hearing, night vision, specialized sharp teeth) these creatures must rely on some other abilities to locate the massive amount of calories they need to feed the huge bulk. Bigfoot enthusiasts contend that intelligence is that primary ability. They often talk about Bigfoot approaching human food sources such as dumpsters. These animals must conform to biological reality. They have to feed, they have to establish territories, they have to find eachother, they have to communicate, they have to compete for mates, they have to mate, they have to give birth, raise young, teach them survival behaviours, they have to occasionally get sick or injured, they have to die, and they have to decay, becoming part of the ecosystem in which they live.
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They also treat snakebites, take 30 ft steps, have orgies, tickle fights, diet with peacocks, ride horses, live on farms in Tn, love garlic, multi lingual
 
King of the Americas said:
Isn't THAT the claim? That these things never really went extinct?
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But since there is no fossil record evidence that Gigantopithecus blacki or any large primate/hominid ever lived on the continental United States, quite irrelevant.

The argument may be that they never went extinct, but since they were never found where BF is reputedly to be found - what's the point?

It's like saying kangaroos never went extinct, therefore giant armadillos still roam New Mexico...
 
King of Americas, please point to evidence for a North American bipedal omnivorous hominin man-ape in the following facts, or any others you care to share with us about genus Gigantopithecus, an Asian pongid (non-hominin) possibly-but-probably-not-bipedal bamboo-eating ape ancestor:

Gigantopithecus bilapurensis (9 mya - 6 mya: Asia [India]) Similar, and possibly ancestral, to G. blacki (see below). Jawbone and teeth only specimens.

Gigantopithecus blacki (1 mya - 100 kya: Asia [China, Vietnam]) Possibly ~9' tall based on size of jawbone and teeth, but owing to wide interspecies differences in the relationship between tooth and body size, some argue G. blacki was much smaller, ~6'. Probably vegetarian; diet of bamboo, foliage, fruits, seeds. Canines neither pointed nor sharp, incisors small, close and peglike. Possibly bipedal owing to U-shape and width of jaw, though this is debated. Jawbone and teeth only specimens. Bamboo forests probable habitat, like that of modern panda. Probable descendant of Sivapithecus, but not believed to be ancestor of modern orangutan.

Gigantopithecus giganteus (6 mya: Asia [India and China]) Similar to G. blacki in most respects, but likely half the size based on the size of jawbones and teeth, which are the only specimens. Also, possible carnivore owing to fossil remains of another species found inside a certain specimen.
 
kitakaze said:
My question for you, then, KotA, is what is the precedence for a massive relatively slow-moving land mammal to exist all across two of the most industrialized nations on Earth, often coming within human inhabited areas and displaying agressive behaviour toward humans, and yet eluding being catalogued by modern science for hundreds of years?
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First, who said they are 'slow moving'?

They 'often' come within human inhabited areas and display aggressive behavior toward us?

Honestly, I can't think of a single precedent for such a mammal.

But I don't think those are accurate depictions of BF behavior.

I can say this, all it would take is for ONE blonde blue eyed little girl to be kidnapped from a camp site by a BF. It would only be a matter of hours before we cornered a herd of them with National Guard helicopters equipped with heat seeking instrumentation.
 
kitakaze said:
2) There are more than enough Bigfooters out looking for Bigfoot. Give me a state in North America and I'll give you a Bigfoot organization. Here's Don Keating and friends in Salt Fork State Park who are out in the park every weekend at least till 4am with the gear out looking for Bigfoot:

Ray Wallace. You're talking silly talk again. Ray Wallace's hoaxing wasn't identified until just a few years ago. Bigfoot evidence other than that attributed to him has been sucking for decades.
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Kitakaze,

What is the group in Michigan? Do you believe the recent recordings here are ridiculous?

When was Ray Wallace outed as a hoaxster?

Thank you.
 
Originally Posted by kitakaze

My question for you, then, KotA, is what is the precedence for a massive relatively slow-moving land mammal to exist all across two of the most industrialized nations on Earth, often coming within human inhabited areas and displaying agressive behaviour toward humans, and yet eluding being catalogued by modern science for hundreds of years?
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New Bigfoot sighting report....without the unambiguous stuff that kitty wants to see...:)...

http://www.cryptomundo.com/cryptozoo-news/fayette-bf/


Here are a few excerpts from it...


"While still pulled over on the roadside, the woman remained seated in her car, trying to regain her composure. She could not believe what had just occurred. Seconds later she looked up to see the creature now on her right side running quickly down the middle of another road about 75 feet away. That was the last time she saw it. The entire incident had lasted just several seconds, but enough time for the witness to recall a detailed description of a creature which she was certain was not human, or a person in a costume.


The creature was stocky and muscular in appearance. The chest area was described as thick and hairy. The shoulders were wide and rounded. The arms were very long, hanging down to the knees or beyond. The witness said the hair on the arms was long, like ape hair. The woman didn’t recall seeing any muscles, however, it appeared as though it was muscular, and in good physical shape.


It was my impression that the witness was very sincere and competent. As she described to us what she had seen and experienced that night, it was evident that she was still emotionally upset by what had occurred.

The witness told me that after the encounter, she drove down the road a short distance and parked her car. She sat there thinking about what had happened. She was trying to convince herself that this was a person, but realized that it couldn’t have been."




Sooo.....WHY no PROOF??? Who the hell knows?!! :)
 
SweatyYeti said:
.....The entire incident had lasted just several seconds, but enough time for the witness to recall a detailed description of a creature which she was certain was not human, or a person in a costume.....
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But of course it was 'enough time', EVEN IF IT WAS JUST A COUPLE SECONDS because we 'humans' are soooooooo good at recalling even the most minute of hairy details of 'mythical beasts', ESPECIALLY when we've only got mere seconds. NOT! The only part of that woman's report I believe COSMICALLY TRUE is that it only lasted several seconds. Now whatever it was that happened in those 'few seconds' is anybody's guess. The notion it was a real life ape-man is absurd.

Personally, I'm SO PAST the idea of taking heed because: someone seemed so sincere or believable; that they had nothing to gain (and/or so much to lose); that they came about all of it 'innocently'; that they were of sound mind and body; that they didn't want to see Bigfoot; that they couldn't possibly be mistaken because they just couldn't be; BLAH BLAH BLAH. As Kitakaze mentions sporadically, people regularly report seeing Reptoids™ also, but yet they're not taken seriously because...why exactly? Bipedal, hairy urban man-apes...check. Bipedal, leathery skinned Reptoids...uncheck. What's the difference?
 
Vortigern99 said:
...snip...Gigantopithecus giganteus (6 mya: Asia [India and China]) Similar to G. blacki in most respects, but likely half the size based on the size of jawbones and teeth, which are the only specimens. Also, possible carnivore owing to fossil remains of another species found inside a certain specimen.
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Can you point a source for the bold part?

I am aware only of jaw fragments and teeth fossil remains with diet having been inferred based on teeth wear patterns.
 
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