Simple question for Bigfoot enthusiasts: Why no unambiguous photos/videos?

[kitakaze]

To all those who believe in Bigfoot, please watch the following videos.

The elusive and rare white kermode/spirit bear (in prime BF habitat):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vspuhFs5lZE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjvpOU349zY&feature=related

Rare white deer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_TvkB1-XeE&feature=related

Florida panthers:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6szikcgOW1E

Rare elusive Javan rhinos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTELuPmncGM

Wolverine images:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QmG7mEXqdcA

Ultra-rare venomous mammal, solenodon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWjyLIZr26Y

First ever footage of ultra-rare bulbous-headed snub fin dolphin:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zakPeyXCUNk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzF-DvNkt9s&NR=1

Ultra-rare and elusive Pakistan snow leopard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LPHxlqjNQhY

Tibetan blue bear in the wild and captivity:









OK, footers. What's the deal? Why are there no unambiguous photos or videos of Bigfoot? Why can't I see an unambiguous video of Bigfoot on youtube. You would have us believe these creatures live all over North America (as well as other continents like Asia and Australia) and that there are over 400+ sightings a year. If you try to argue just for a specific area, show how you were able to dismiss others areas.

What is the precedent for a massive land mammal living across major industrialized nations with a viable breeding population and no reliable evidence, unambiguous photos or videos, or type specimen. It is ludicrous and insane. Will you please try and honestly confront this problem? Don't talk to me about remote wilderness. That's not the way Bigfoot is reported. Don't talk to me about only the PNW. Over 2/3 of reports come from outside it. Don't talk to me about eastern cougars. I linked videos of Florida panthers.

Any excuses or apologism will be dismantled. Can you handle this question?

 

[manofthesea]

OK, footers. What's the deal? Why are there no unambiguous photos or videos of Bigfoot? Why can't I see an unambiguous video of Bigfoot on youtube.
?

Did you know the average American never figured how to set their VCR clocks? Do you know the average intelligence of bigfoot hunters and their corresponding capabilities of properly operating a camcorder? The few who have are worthy of Monsterquest and other shows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL9Wu2kWwSY

 

[kitakaze]

Did you know the average American never figured how to set their VCR clocks? Do you know the average intelligence of bigfoot hunters and their corresponding capabilities of properly operating a camcorder? The few who have are worthy of Monsterquest and other shows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL9Wu2kWwSY

That is not a valid argument of why there are no unambiguous photos or images of this supposed giant mammal living, eating, sleeping, pooping, finding each other, mating, and dying all across the continent. Name any of the large mammals of North America currently existing and I can immediately show you that animal on youtube. Why can I not do this with Bigfoot? Insulting the intelligence of your fellow Americans and Bigfoot enthusiasts doesn't help you at all. An animal that you claim will chase people, scream as loud as a jet plane, cause all the woodland creatures to flee before it á la The Smurfs, and level the forest to get at you, and living across NA with viable breeding numbers that have been sustained for tens of thousands of years would have been filmed many, many times by now.

To argue otherwise is just mind-numbingly ridiculous.

 

[manofthesea]

Insulting the intelligence of your fellow Americans and Bigfoot enthusiasts doesn't help you at all.

But you don't deny it. The truth may be politically incorrect, but it must be brought up in defense of inaccurate comparisons. Like my point in the "why no bigfoot roadkill" thread. I asked for the number of other apes roadkilled in their native habitat. All I got was obfuscation.

It's a valid point. Considering that the prefered method of hunting bigfoot is banging trees with a stick and packing an audio recorder. While pistol hunting from their car. On the outskirts of some yahoo town.

 

[rjh01]

Here is a youtube of bigfoot. It has had 168,991 views, rating of 4.5 and shows a figure that is very clear. I do not think there will be much discussion on what it is. What more do you want?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkFsvs_uKr0

 

[manofthesea]

Insulting the intelligence of ... Bigfoot enthusiasts doesn't help you at all.
.

Do you ever read what you type?

 

[Vortigern99]

Well, this is the billion-dollar question, isn't it? If I had a few hours to spare, I might put together as thoughtful and well-researched a response as it deserves. Failing that, here are a few thoughts:

If I accept some reported sightings as possibly being true, that does not mean all reported sightings must be equally true. I personally am less inclined to credit reports of a sighting anywhere near civilization, or the more extreme reports of chase or violence -- leveling forests and the like -- than I am those of a reclusive resident of deep wilderness that manages to keep itself hidden most of the time. That it is sometimes spotted is a testament, perhaps, to its objective reality, not that its avoidance skills "suck" as one commentator recently put it.

I cannot speak to bigfoot's presence or absence in any region of the US or Canada other than those I've studied, the PNW and Texas. East Texas contains vast tracts of wet woodland, which according to a chimpanzee rehabilitation center in Louisiana could support and protect wild chimpanzees. (links later; tired) Canada contains over one billion acres of unspoiled woodlands, much of it national preserve, which could conceivably provide nutrition and cover for a small population of wild primates. I've heard a number as low as 200 put forward as necessary for a breeding population to continue for eons.

If these conjectured creatures share ancestry with orangs (which as descendants of Gigantopithecus they might), then it makes sense they might have a similar social structure as orangs -- namely, solitary males and family-group females, who occasionally come together to mate. If food is abundant in the woods of the PNW, from bugs and slugs to roots and nuts and perhaps some foliage and grass shoots, and predation by mountain lions is unlikely based on average size, then this kind of social grouping would make sense, since large social groups, normative to most primate species, are designed to protect food sources and keep predators away.

Why are there no better films than those we have, which are admittedly ambiguous and arguable, when rare bears, deer, rhinos, panthers and the like have clear and unambiguous film and video snapped and shot of them on a regular basis? My guess would be that if bigfoot (plural) exist, then they must have learned to be cautious of human beings, perhaps helping one another avoid humans by means of an "enemy!" call or a similar enculturated response, known among some primate species.

All questions of trace evidence -- bones, fossils, stool -- might be explained as the result of the species residing in montane forest, in which ground erosion, frost, rainfall and soil acidity conspire to wash away or destroy most biologic residue.

These are just opinions and guesses, mind you, not substantiated fact. This is the kind of question that merits entire books being written, as opposed to slim, late-night discussion-board messages based on sheer conjecture.

 

[Correa Neto]

...snip...All questions of trace evidence -- bones, fossils, stool -- might be explained as the result of the species residing in montane forest, in which ground erosion, frost, rainfall and soil acidity conspire to wash away or destroy most biologic residue...snip...

Sorry, not enough of a reason. I suggest you -again- to use the advanced search function. Try fossils+bigfoot, or something like that, looking for my posts.

The "acid soil & mountain forest" excuses are nothing but footer misinformation.

 

[tsig]

Well, this is the billion-dollar question, isn't it? If I had a few hours to spare, I might put together as thoughtful and well-researched a response as it deserves. Failing that, here are a few thoughts:

If I accept some reported sightings as possibly being true, that does not mean all reported sightings must be equally true. I personally am less inclined to credit reports of a sighting anywhere near civilization, or the more extreme reports of chase or violence -- leveling forests and the like -- than I am those of a reclusive resident of deep wilderness that manages to keep itself hidden most of the time. That it is sometimes spotted is a testament, perhaps, to its objective reality, not that its avoidance skills "suck" as one commentator recently put it.

I cannot speak to bigfoot's presence or absence in any region of the US or Canada other than those I've studied, the PNW and Texas. East Texas contains vast tracts of wet woodland, which according to a chimpanzee rehabilitation center in Louisiana could support and protect wild chimpanzees. (links later; tired) Canada contains over one billion acres of unspoiled woodlands, much of it national preserve, which could conceivably provide nutrition and cover for a small population of wild primates. I've heard a number as low as 200 put forward as necessary for a breeding population to continue for eons.

If these conjectured creatures share ancestry with orangs (which as descendants of Gigantopithecus they might), then it makes sense they might have a similar social structure as orangs -- namely, solitary males and family-group females, who occasionally come together to mate. If food is abundant in the woods of the PNW, from bugs and slugs to roots and nuts and perhaps some foliage and grass shoots, and predation by mountain lions is unlikely based on average size, then this kind of social grouping would make sense, since large social groups, normative to most primate species, are designed to protect food sources and keep predators away.

Why are there no better films than those we have, which are admittedly ambiguous and arguable, when rare bears, deer, rhinos, panthers and the like have clear and unambiguous film and video snapped and shot of them on a regular basis? My guess would be that if bigfoot (plural) exist, then they must have learned to be cautious of human beings, perhaps helping one another avoid humans by means of an "enemy!" call or a similar enculturated response, known among some primate species.

All questions of trace evidence -- bones, fossils, stool -- might be explained as the result of the species residing in montane forest, in which ground erosion, frost, rainfall and soil acidity conspire to wash away or destroy most biologic residue.

These are just opinions and guesses, mind you, not substantiated fact. This is the kind of question that merits entire books being written, as opposed to slim, late-night discussion-board messages based on sheer conjecture.

I like how you can read BF's mind and know aspects of their culture. Did you gain this knowledge by living among them or did some Indian tracker tell you?

How does the "enemy" call differ from the "friend" call? If we knew this we could go in the forest and call them in.

 

[kitakaze]

I cannot speak to bigfoot's presence or absence in any region of the US or Canada other than those I've studied, the PNW and Texas. East Texas contains vast tracts of wet woodland, which according to a chimpanzee rehabilitation center in Louisiana could support and protect wild chimpanzees. (links later; tired) Canada contains over one billion acres of unspoiled woodlands, much of it national preserve, which could conceivably provide nutrition and cover for a small population of wild primates. I've heard a number as low as 200 put forward as necessary for a breeding population to continue for eons.

A population of 200 individuals would be a genetic bottleneck, be teetering on extinction, and could not account for the sightings as reported. Look at this BFRO Texas report map:

http://bfro.net/GDB/state_listing.asp?state=tx#map

A giant beast living in vialble breeding numbers so close to Dallas is not going to escape being filmed. People live and work in those areas. The TBRC has had cameras in those areas like Big Thicket for years and no Bigfoot.

If these conjectured creatures share ancestry with orangs (which as descendants of Gigantopithecus they might), then it makes sense they might have a similar social structure as orangs -- namely, solitary males and family-group females, who occasionally come together to mate.

If Patty was a Bigfoot, she wasn't a Gigantopithecus. Her jaw is no match for Giganto. We have Giganto jaws to look at and they're huge. Patty doesn't compare in that regard. Also Giganto most likely ate largely bamboo with some fruits like jackfruit and durian. This is going to greatly affect their behaviour.

If food is abundant in the woods of the PNW, from bugs and slugs to roots and nuts and perhaps some foliage and grass shoots, and predation by mountain lions is unlikely based on average size, then this kind of social grouping would make sense, since large social groups, normative to most primate species, are designed to protect food sources and keep predators away.

Remember, gorillas need around 9000 calories a day. Where is a viable breeding population of sasquatches getting the well over 9000 calories it needs in a day in Big Thicket, Texas, while never appearing on one of the many game trails in the area?

Why are there no better films than those we have, which are admittedly ambiguous and arguable, when rare bears, deer, rhinos, panthers and the like have clear and unambiguous film and video snapped and shot of them on a regular basis? My guess would be that if bigfoot (plural) exist, then they must have learned to be cautious of human beings, perhaps helping one another avoid humans by means of an "enemy!" call or a similar enculturated response, known among some primate species.

But if they're like orangutans like you mention, they're going to be found. From orangs to the newly described Bili apes, apes are inquisitive animals. Orangs will often approach humans. Young orang males are notorious for their bad behaviour and the way in which they will harrass female orangs. If they're living in numbers enough to be making danger calls to one another when humans approach, it wouldn't matter if they learned to mimic "I've got a gun and I'll shoot!" They're still going to be found.

All questions of trace evidence -- bones, fossils, stool -- might be explained as the result of the species residing in montane forest, in which ground erosion, frost, rainfall and soil acidity conspire to wash away or destroy most biologic residue.

No, this part doesn't work. I mentioned this in another thread. That's not the way Bigfoot is reported. 2/3 outside the PNW and plenty of archaeology in the PNW with fossil finds. We have bones for everything else currently maintaining breeding populations there, why not one of the biggest. You should definitely read Correa's posts on this. Did Bigfoot learn with the assistance of the Shaman of the Whills the Jedi art of becoming force ghosts upon death? That would make more sense almost!

These are just opinions and guesses, mind you, not substantiated fact. This is the kind of question that merits entire books being written, as opposed to slim, late-night discussion-board messages based on sheer conjecture.

Yes, Bill Munns said something similar to that, I believe...

 

[Correa Neto]

Some perspective...

Before some enthusiast pops out claiming there are clear images, here's my updated collage of bigfoot imagery.

Veredict options (more than one may apply to each image)- Hoaxes, suspected of being hoaxes, too blurry to be of any use, misidentifications.
Unless, of course, you wish to believe bigfeet are blurry and/or people who take pics of bigfeet can't operate cameras...

 

[kitakaze]

How does the "enemy" call differ from the "friend" call? If we knew this we could go in the forest and call them in.

Simple...

1 knock for enemy.

2 for friend.

3 for garlic and beans.

4 and a plaintive moan for Bigfoot orgy.

 

[CurtisP]

Here is a youtube of bigfoot. It has had 168,991 views, rating of 4.5 and shows a figure that is very clear. I do not think there will be much discussion on what it is. What more do you want?

Best bigfoot ever.

 

[Biscuit]

Why are there no better films than those we have, which are admittedly ambiguous and arguable, when rare bears, deer, rhinos, panthers and the like have clear and unambiguous film and video snapped and shot of them on a regular basis? My guess would be that if bigfoot (plural) exist, then they must have learned to be cautious of human beings, perhaps helping one another avoid humans by means of an "enemy!" call or a similar enculturated response, known among some primate species.

What experiences has bigfoot had with mankind that caused it to be cautious of us? Is it equally cautious of all other animals?

This is starting to sound like the bigfoot legend of it being a protector of the woodlands and having a supernatural origin and purpose. How could a reclusive and rare animal that lives in the most remote sections of the world have all learned to be cautious of humans?

 

[GT/CS]

Wasn't there a really clear photo of a huge bigfoot in Florida?

If I remember correctly a forest fire forced it out of the woods and it was seen by some helicopter pilots who were afraid of losing their jobs so the didn't report it. Luckily, a local resident, who was taking a photo of the helicopter found it in the photo.

I know the photo is around here somewhere.

 

[desertgal]

Why are there no better films than those we have, which are admittedly ambiguous and arguable, when rare bears, deer, rhinos, panthers and the like have clear and unambiguous film and video snapped and shot of them on a regular basis? My guess would be that if bigfoot (plural) exist, then they must have learned to be cautious of human beings, perhaps helping one another avoid humans by means of an "enemy!" call or a similar enculturated response, known among some primate species.

But, if we presume that BF exist, and that at least some of the reported sightings are genuine, then BF aren't avoiding humans. They're simply, somehow, avoiding being photographed clearly-which, unless they are just naturally blurry, would be impossible on their part.

Which takes us back to the original question: if BF does exist, why isn't there, at least, one example of a clear photograph or film footage?

And it is absurd to suggest that it is because many Americans can't program the clocks on their VCR's. My dad never figured out how to program the clock on his VCR, and he still managed to get pictures of deer and bear in Yosemite and Denali. He also stuck a double piece of masking tape over that darn VCR clock so he wouldn't have to see it flashing. Humans may have blind spots, but they can also think outside the box. If BF did exist, a determined human surely should have been able to get a clear picture by now.

 

[Correa Neto]

GT, you are talking about Creekfreak. The "bigfoot" of his picture can be seen in my collage just below Patty, to the left of the GAboys' bigfoot corpse. It was shown to be a doctored picture.

 

[kitakaze]

GT, you are talking about Creekfreak. The "bigfoot" of his picture can be seen in my collage just below Patty, to the left of the GAboys' bigfoot corpse. It was shown to be a doctored picture.

Actually, I think GT is almost certainly referring to the Myakka skunk ape photo. It was featured prominently in the MQ skunk ape episode. Some think it is a fake while others are sure it is an orangutan.

ETA: Here are the images:

http://www.lorencoleman.com/images/SkunkApe-OrangComparison2.jpg

http://www.itsnature.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/myakka_skunk_ape_1.png

http://www.lorencoleman.com/images/Myakka_ape2_closeup.jpg

And a separate myakka ape video. Typical guys in the trees vid:



Again ETA: *properly reads GT's post*

 

[drapier]

You guys are too serious. GT was having a little bit of fun at Creakfreak's expense.

 

[desertgal]

Actually, I think GT is almost certainly referring to the Myakka skunk ape photo. It's was featured prominently in the MQ skunk ape episode. Some think it is a fake while others are sure it is an orangutan.

No, I think he's referring to Creekfreak's photo, as well. Creek stated that the creature came out of the woods because of a forest fire, in front of a fire helicopter, and he claimed the pilots didn't report it because they were afraid of losing their jobs. If you remember, the focus of the full picture was the helicopter itself.