Simple Challenge For Bigfoot Supporters

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LAL,

Was there one particular piece of "evidence" that pushed you over the line of belief in BF, or was it simply a combinatino of all the "evidence" you've come across?
 
There used to be a bigfoot. Homo Giganthropithicus. Now maybe if we could get a DNA signature, perfect cloning and get a population of these creatures we could set them loose in various wooded areas of the world and then we'd have a real bigfoot. Uh Joking.
 
cloudshipsrule said:
LAL,

Was there one particular piece of "evidence" that pushed you over the line of belief in BF, or was it simply a combinatino of all the "evidence" you've come across?
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If there was any one thing that convinced me, it was probably the Cox sighting in March, 1969. It was only a few miles from where we planned to live and it certainly got my attention when I read the front page story in the Vancouver (Washington) Columbian. I was able to talk to one of the deputies about it years later. The animal was an estimated 8-9', the bank 14', and the smeared toeprint 8' feet up. In the deputy's words, "That was no bear".

This is a shot of the artist renditions on the front page of the local paper:

SkamaniaCountyPioneer400.jpg
 
LAL said:
If there was any one thing that convinced me, it was probably the Cox sighting in March, 1969. It was only a few miles from where we planned to live and it certainly got my attention when I read the front page story in the Vancouver (Washington) Columbian.
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Would you say that the fact that it happened close to you affected your judgment ?
 
Belz... said:
Would you say that the fact that it happened close to you affected your judgment ?
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Not really. It was exciting. If you drew a line from that sighting to the area north of Carson where the double trackway was found, it would just about cross our land. It's possible one or more of the animals did too. They were driven down by the exceptionally heavy snowpack.

I'd found three of John Green's early books in a souvenier shop just months before when we were moving from California to Oregon, but that was the first I'd ever seen on this. I managed to get all the way into adulthood without hearing or reading a thing. There was an article in National Wildlife on the PGF and I think I saw that (we would have had a delay in getting the issue, although we subscribed), and I know I bought the Argosy magazine with the Minnesota Iceman (whatever that was) on the cover.

I don't think I've ever had strong feelings the creatures can't exist. I've lived in the habitat and I'm not so egocentric as to think there can't be any surviving bipedal primates other than us. What makes us so special?

I think I went from neutral to better-informed without passing scoftical.
 
I don't know, Lu. I'd think that something that strikes your imagination the way it did could easily be clouding your reason at that time.

Personally, I've had many run-ins with beliefs that were based solely on my desire for them to be true.
 
Belz... said:
I don't know, Lu. I'd think that something that strikes your imagination the way it did could easily be clouding your reason at that time.

Personally, I've had many run-ins with beliefs that were based solely on my desire for them to be true.
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There was physical evidence for that one, otherwise I might not have been as interested. There was other physical evidence I became aware of later.

I don't know how many sheriffs around the country kept a cast on their desks.

As I recall I was in a period in between debunking Velikovsky and The Bermuda Triangle. Von Danekin came later.

I should add I had small children at the time, so I was very much into finding out about cougars, bear, coyotes, poison oak and the geology and history of the magnificent area in general. I've never had such a feeling of awe before or since as when we were cruising the countryside catching sudden glimpses of volcanoes or waterfalls or double rainbows.

The kids were bored senseless.
 
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Today I received a rather stunning image from my associate Wolftrax. He created a fake track using a flexible prosthetic in some mud in his backyard.

Look closely at the texture just under the toes that runs transversely across the "ball" of the foot. You will notice that it is a nearly dead-on match for the texture that Jimmy Chilcutt claimed was a "scar" on the so-called "Wrinkle Foot" cast made by Paul Freeman.

I hope the resolution of this photograph is good enough for everyone to see what I can see on my end.

Personally, I think this is a stunning breakthrough, at least on a par with the elucidation of the desiccation ridge process, though not quite as profound as Dr. Wroblewski's analysis of the Skookum Elk Cast.

You will see how one more texture claimed to be "dermal ridges" indeed has a prosaic explanation.

I think this is about the last nail in the coffin for "Bigfoot's dermal ridges"...

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That's supposed to look like this?
 

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  • Chilcutt - Wrinkle Foot scar.jpg
    Chilcutt - Wrinkle Foot scar.jpg
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For comparison, here is what the "scar" texture on Wrinkle Foot looks like:

IMG_5259.jpg


I've put my fingers in the photo to give a simple size comparison. You can see how huge the feature is relative to real and known (human) dermal ridges.

Being that Wolftrax photograpic manipulation skills are much better than mine, I'm hoping that we will soon see close-up and comparison shots from him.
 
Some observations regarding tracks:
footprint2.jpg

(1) belongs to a set of tracks that are shallower than the "horizontal" one. They were made by a person using sneakers, and this person's weight is not smaller than the weight of the person responsible by the barefoot "horizontal" track line. Both tracks were made nearly at the same time, no humidity variation. Track depth differences are only related to pressure and styles of walking; the barefoot person was walking faster and sinking his feet on the sand; the one with the sneakers walked slowly and more carefully to avoid sand entering the shoes. The movment was not unlike what one would expect from someone using fake rigid feet. The "depth impression implies in great weight" argument goes down the dran, again...

Compare (1) and (2). Both show features that could be interpreded as mid-tarsal breaks! Prints similar to (4) -note the person stepped over a depression- were shown as evidence of mid-tarsal breaks acting to compensate irregularities in the substrate. Well either the makers of those tracks had mid tarsal breaks or the criteria used to inferr mid-tarsal breaks from alleged bigfoot footprints are prone to failure.

Compare (2), (3) and (4). See how varied are the individual prints. The same can be seen in the "vertical" track line. This is a clear indication that track lines composed by prints with very similar shapes are fishy.
footprints.jpg

Now, a closer look. (1) is the print made with sneakers. Depth differences are obvious. And again, there was no major weight difference between the persons responsible by the prints neither a great time interval between their making. Note the "mid-tarsal break at (2). Its actually sand being pushed backwards by the plantar region as the frontal part of the foot moves. At (3), sand was either carried by the fingers and or/pushed forward. This particular feature seems to be quite rare in the avaliable bigfoot footprint prints...
 
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LAL said:
There was physical evidence for that one, otherwise I might not have been as interested. There was other physical evidence I became aware of later.

I don't know how many sheriffs around the country kept a cast on their desks.
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Pictures of the tracks, perhaps ? Analyses by relevant experts ?

But that's beside the point. I simply said that strong emotional attachment to a subject makes it more likely that reasoning will be impaired. Are you sure you're looking at this from an unbiased perspective ?
 
LAL said:
I don't think I've ever had strong feelings the creatures can't exist. I've lived in the habitat and I'm not so egocentric as to think there can't be any surviving bipedal primates other than us. What makes us so special?

I think I went from neutral to better-informed without passing scoftical.
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Lu, I'm sure you'd agree it's not egocentric to be skeptical of 8ft bipedal giants eluding us across the world and the centuries.
 
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