Simple Challenge For Bigfoot Supporters

Status
Not open for further replies.
Thanks for the link. I have to admire Craig for reading all that. I bought the magazine Tuesday night, but have managed to lose it twice, and while I've read several articles in the issue I could only get through two sentences of the review.

I'll try again when I find the magazine.
 
There aer reports going back centuries, but not searches, that I know of, and 8' bipedal giants aren't being reported all over the world.

Is there some reason people in Sumatra would hallucinate short hairy bipeds?
Well, if we are to accept the oft-touted anecdotal evidence then it should follow that there have been searches going back centuries (never mind the millionth mention that you don't have to specifically be looking for any 8ft hairy giant to find one). If there really was such a creature all about the continent it really should have been one the most notorious. What's that? A big hairy manthing was stealing your pumpkins and wearing a dear liver for a hat? Get my gun, Betty. I'm off a-lynchin'!

Also, we've had the bigfoot type creatures reported all over the world discussion before, don't make me go all Coleman. I'm sure there's probably instances of some Sumatrans licking some frogs and seeing some wild stuff but I'm sure there's a lot more who have old tales, get confused, or just make crap up. And do I really need to bring up Hawaii?

BTW, Lu, just curious but did you mess your foot up? I caught your mention to that affect somewhere else a couple days ago. I ask because last week I accidentally kicked a chair leg and darn near broke my toe. It went all sorts of colours and I've been hobbling around since.
 
Pictures of the tracks, perhaps ? Analyses by relevant experts ?

But that's beside the point. I simply said that strong emotional attachment to a subject makes it more likely that reasoning will be impaired. Are you sure you're looking at this from an unbiased perspective ?

I don't think I had a strong emotional attachment. I was mildly interested and a bit excited at first.

Having traveled through Northern California and much of Oregon prior to running across Green's books and then spending considerable time in the "habitat" where these events occurred, it didn't seem unlikely that a large, unidentified mammal could exist in those regions undetected by science.

Krantz consulted a fingerprint expert in Skamania County, BTW. I didn't know they had one.

The idea of a guy in an ape suit scaling a 14' embankment leaving only one print 8' up and a crushed fern and small tree at the top, and/or a couple of guys in "Bigfoot boots" leaping across 7 miles of rugged, snow-covered terrain doesn't seem nearly as plausible to me as the idea that a small group of sasquatches moved to lower elevations due to the unusually heavy snowpack.

Stevenson was (and is) a small town, the kind where everybody knows everybody's business, yet I never heard anything about hoaxers. I think that would have been big news.

Still haven't found the UFO question. I'm looking.
 
I don't think I had a strong emotional attachment. I was mildly interested and a bit excited at first.

Having traveled through Northern California and much of Oregon prior to running across Green's books and then spending considerable time in the "habitat" where these events occurred, it didn't seem unlikely that a large, unidentified mammal could exist in those regions undetected by science.

Krantz consulted a fingerprint expert in Skamania County, BTW. I didn't know they had one.

The idea of a guy in an ape suit scaling a 14' embankment leaving only one print 8' up and a crushed fern and small tree at the top, and/or a couple of guys in "Bigfoot boots" leaping across 7 miles of rugged, snow-covered terrain doesn't seem nearly as plausible to me as the idea that a small group of sasquatches moved to lower elevations due to the unusually heavy snowpack.

Stevenson was (and is) a small town, the kind where everybody knows everybody's business, yet I never heard anything about hoaxers. I think that would have been big news.

Still haven't found the UFO question. I'm looking.
I wish I could share you certainty regarding bigfoot. I want to believe. Can you help me? All I ask for is some reliable evidence. Only one print 8' up a 14' enbankment? You can't think of a mundane explanation for that? I could do that with the same trusty pole with stompers on either end that I use for my regular trackways. I've already posted a link of a guy walking miles in stompers for a hoax.

Show me this bigfoot scat. Where are these hair samples that genetically are close to great apes and genetically match eachother? Where are these tracks that display successive matching dermatoglyphics? That is reliable evidence and that would get me back on your side of the fence.
 
Somebody please wake me up when the endless repetition of old shaky arguments stop and new interesting evidence are shown...

:s2:
 
Somebody please wake me up when the endless repetition of old shaky arguments stop and new interesting evidence are shown...

:s2:
Though we've seen nothing of it I'm told that there is much interesting evidence being recovered and work being done. None of this is shared with the world because umm... Anyway, cool stuff, just trust me. Go Iowa!

Oh yeah, and tube was right. Youtube culture is making a mockery of bigfootery.
 
......
Krantz consulted a fingerprint expert in Skamania County, BTW. I didn't know they had one.
What did he come away with, from that consultation ?

.....
The idea of a guy in an ape suit scaling a 14' embankment leaving only one print 8' up and a crushed fern and small tree at the top, and/or a couple of guys in "Bigfoot boots" leaping across 7 miles of rugged, snow-covered terrain doesn't seem nearly as plausible to me as the idea that a small group of sasquatches moved to lower elevations due to the unusually heavy snowpack.
A small group ? At least 3 ?

Sounds more like the ' Flying Walendas ' if there was only one set of footprints...


Why don't Bigfoot footprints ever lead to a Bigfoot Lu ?

Why no definitive trackways in years ?
 
Last edited:
BTW, Lu, just curious but did you mess your foot up? I caught your mention to that affect somewhere else a couple days ago. I ask because last week I accidentally kicked a chair leg and darn near broke my toe. It went all sorts of colours and I've been hobbling around since.

I'm sorry to hear that. Hazzards of bipedalism. It's got to be easier to hobble around quadrupedally.

I stepped on a nail while trying to plant some roses and developed an aggressive infection. It' better now, but I was having to go back for follow up every day or two. The industrial strength antibiotic wasn't working (and has a rare, but fatal side-effect, so the PA put me on one that's specific for bacteria that live in shoes. The ones I was wearing are supposed to prevent penetration by bacteria, but I guess there's no reason they can't live on the surface.
 
I wish I could share you certainty regarding bigfoot. I want to believe. Can you help me? All I ask for is some reliable evidence. Only one print 8' up a 14' enbankment? You can't think of a mundane explanation for that? I could do that with the same trusty pole with stompers on either end that I use for my regular trackways. I've already posted a link of a guy walking miles in stompers for a hoax.

Again, the co-discoverer had to jump to equal that stride, and he's nearly 6'4". There were two trackways, side by side, in that event. They went up an incline the people had to climb. Even going down the incline, with the feet on backwards, would have been extremely dangerous. They were several days old when found. It makes no sense hoaxers (if it was even possible to pull such a hoax) would go to all that trouble, actually jumping for seven miles in an area where their handiwork was unlikely to be found before the snow melted. Five DNR workers saw a pair crossing a meadow some years after that, and Huntster and I managed to dig up five other reports from 1969 in the area. I found one in the Bords' book as well. Yet, no one reported hoaxers? Strange.

The bank was investigated by trained personnel from the sheriff's department. They found a full print by the river as well. The witness saw a dark 8-9'figure cross the road and leap up the bank, not some kid with a pole poking about at 3 or 4 AM on one of the most dangerous highways in the country. At the time, HWY 14 was virtually without shoulders and turnouts. There've been other sightings on that road that haven't been reported, to my knowledge.

Show me this bigfoot scat.

I don't have any in the freezer. Sorry.

Where are these hair samples that genetically are close to great apes and genetically match eachother?

Dr. Fahrenbach has some of the samples. I don't know what happened to the one Scott Herriot submitted.

Where are these tracks that display successive matching dermatoglyphics? That is reliable evidence and that would get me back on your side of the fence.

Evidently CA-19 and 20 are a match, but the pictures on the Internet aren't really clear enough to show the characteristics that are outside the possible pouring artifacts.

The OM tracks were old and didn't cast well. John Green didn't think the now controversial OM cast was important. He noticed lines in the 15" print, and feared they might be woodgrain, but dermatoglyphics weren't really noted until 1982.

Most of the BCM tracks, including the ones Don Abbott tried to preserve with glue, were obliterated by the road crew, and I don't know that any they cast showed dermatoglyphics. Due to the nature of the substrate, very few prints have shown them at all. The practice in those days was to cast the best, rather than a series, with the exception of Titmus' casts after the filming of the PGF.

Trackways are rare, compared to occasional individual prints, and most people finding them weren't looking. Few would be carrying casting material, unless they were researching an area or following up on a report, as Green was with Ryerson.

One researcher claims he doesn't bother to cast them because they don't "prove" anything.
 
Though we've seen nothing of it I'm told that there is much interesting evidence being recovered and work being done. None of this is shared with the world because umm... Anyway, cool stuff, just trust me. Go Iowa!

Oh yeah, and tube was right. Youtube culture is making a mockery of bigfootery.
First you've gotta go through the iniciatic period and rituals. Only then you'll learn the secret handshake that will allow you to witness the new pieces of interesting evidence- as long as you don't question them.

Honestly, they can't complain against scoffing... They create plenty of opportunities for scoffing, they seem to beg for it.

Wake me up when something good shows up.
:s2:
Something tells me this will be a looooong sleep...

Yeah, Tube is right. And about many non-Youtube things, I would say...
 
You guys are FAR more hardcore than me to still be active in this thread. My hat is off to you. :)

I'm quite honestly interested in what you guys are discussing but I definitely don't have the time to catch up on 109ish pages of posts. Has anyone made any headway in my absence or have both sides said it all?
 
Dr. Fahrenbach has some of the [hair] samples.

Evidently LAL has forgotten that Dr. Fahrenbach, who isn't a hair expert, has declared he's concentrating on blood because "the hair holds no promise".

Repeating the Fahrenbach mantra won't get us any closer to ending the bigfoot mystery.

And LAL, for the love of Ed, read Krantz:

"Unfortunately for these earlier studies, the science of hair analysis is rather inexact and the competence of the investigator varies greatly...As one expert put it, the only way to positively identify a sasquatch hair is to match it with a known sample."-- Grover Krantz Big Footprints, pages 125-126
RayG
 
What do you make of the stories of extra-terrestrial visitors ?

Sleep paralysis in the case of "abductions", possible electrical discharges from underlying granite deposits, especially in South Wales, atmospheric distortions of the moon and Venus and torches at a refinery, misidentified weather balloons, especially when we weren't officially spying on any other country, schizophrenia, flying garment bags launched by teens, towns drumming up tourist trade, and my all-time favorite, the "landing site" with the matches in the middle.

I have no doubt the universe could be teeming with life, but the distances are just too great for some alien ship to be scaring the folks in McMinnville, Oregon, and getting home in time for dinner.

I just watched Contact again, too. I suppose Sagan wasn't a scientist because he wrote a novel about the first communication with a civilization near Vega.

Yes, I think some of the sasquatch sightings are of that nature, but delusions don't leave spoor.
 
Correction: Kitakaze asked, "Where are these hair samples that genetically are close to great apes and genetically match each other?"

<emphasis mine>

DNA has been extracted but was too fragmented for proper sequencing. The hairs that were evidently in the gorilla, human chimpanzee group but matched none were evidently examined physically.

DNA testing destroys the samples, doesn't it? In that case, the samples no longer exist.

Vaughn M. Bryant, Jr., and Burleigh Trevor-Deutsch had samples in 1980. Their report points up some of the difficulties in proper identification.
 
Last edited:
I just watched Contact again, too. I suppose Sagan wasn't a scientist because he wrote a novel about the first communication with a civilization near Vega.


Yes Sagan was still a scientist when he wrote "Contact", but that was a fictional novel remember. I am pretty sure Sagan wouldn't take the supposed evidence for Sasquatch seriously, just a guess there of course. Now if Sagan thought that aliens are coming here and heading home over the vast distances of space to make it home for dinner as you say, then he'd be in the pseudoscience category. But I believe the novel has communiction done over radio signals, and not via a close encounter. Sagan would have definitely made the same mistakes Meldrum is making with his analysis of "evidence', I am pretty sure that Sagan would require a body, or at least something better than footprints, and hair and scat that never seems to be analyzed by proper scientific methods.
 
Did Sagan or the Russians have a body?

"Sagan was inextricably tied to the search for extraterrestrial intelligence. In the mid-1960s, he initiated the translation and expansion of a Russian book on space and the possibility of extraterrestrial life. The resulting work, "Intelligent Life in the Universe" (Shklovskii and Sagan) was a seminal volume in what eventually became a burgeoning SETI literature. Sagan was also a major participant in early SETI meetings, including the first international SETI conference held in the Soviet Union in 1971, and wrote many papers on this subject."

http://www.seti.org/site/pp.asp?c=ktJ2J9MMIsE&b=181431

He was criticized by colleagues, too, for "popularizing" science.
 
Nyet, Sagan and the Russians did not have a body, but I do think they'd freely admit if they were wrong about the possibility of extra-terrestrial life. Science is like that ya know. I think Meldrum will always be convinced of Bigfoot despite the lack of evidence. Sagan would have probably liked to have a body of an extra-terrestial, but being a realistic person, he thought they only way to find life out there would be by radio. His sort of "body" would have been signal that in no way could have originated on earth. But since that has never happened, we have no evidence of life on other worlds. Same goes for Bigfoot sadly.
 
Another thing Sagan always said was "I could be wrong", I wonder if Jeff Meldrum is prepared to eventually say that?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom