Siesmic Evidence Proves Inside Job?

I am curious and I genuinely cannot find the information I am looking for.

Could anybody help out here?

TS maintains that explosions took place 17 and 14 seconds before the planes hit as it was recorded by seismologists.

My question is does anybody know the official time that each Tower started to collapse? And do they compare and tie in with seismic readings or is there a discrepancy also?

Just curious.
The answer is yes, I followed the same line of reasoning in my criticism of the paper.

All of the seismograph readings show significant discrepancies. I believe with a more thorough estimate of collapse times, the offset could be quantified more exactly.

I'd have been a lot more receptive of the paper's conclusions if the seismograph readings showed double-spikes, i.e. indicating that there were additional events, but they don't. In order for Ross and Furlong to be correct, not only must there be no time offset, but the aircraft impact and building collapses must have somehow escaped seismometrical detection.
 
Sure it is, Lash.

No, it is not. It is evidence of fireballs in elevator shafts.

The elevator in question did not go up to the impact zone. Therefore there is no shaft to conduct the fireball down to where it is alleged to have caused all this damage.

Which elevator are you talking about? Be specific. Each of the elevators were numbered - which one are you talking about? Please provide evidence that the elevator you are talking about was not in a shaft that rose further above than the floors the elevator stopped on?

The elevators which did go up to the impact zone were not, blown out.

Please provide evidence to support this assertion.

Thus the evidence is consistent with an explosion in the basement, and is inconsistent with a fireball travelling down the elevator shaft.

You have provided no evidence except the use of a metaphor in one account by one person and some unsourced assertions about an insufficiently identified elevator and an insufficiently identified shaft. Your conclusion, therefore, is unsupportable as it currently sits.

When you combine this evidence with the eyewitness testimony which states that the basement explosion occurred before the jet impact, then corroborate all of that with the seismic data and the radar data, you have a very compelling case for an explosion in the basement.

Again, your conclusion is faulty because all of your premises were faulty. And you still have not provided proof of your seismic assertion, despite being asked repeatedly. Here is the question again:

Where is the link that shows the seismographic recordings were syncronized to a standard? Please provide evidence, not merely assertions.

This thread has clearly touched a nerve with you anti-science guys.

You are foolish to call others here anti-science when it is obvious to everyone reading these threads that you have no knowledge, education or qualifications in any relevant scientific field of study. No, google-engineering and unskilled analysis of photos you find on the internet does not count as "science".

The only thing you have come up with is the possibility that LDEO's clocks were behind by 17 seconds! This is a huge accusation. This is a scientific observatory whose accuracy crucially depends on correct timestamping.

Still waiting for you to provide that evidence that the seismographic recordings were syncronized to a standard.

Wiliam Rodriguez (and the others)

Still waiting for you to provide the names and statements of those "36 others" that you have referred to several times.

And as you know full well, Mr. Rodriguez' story has changed several times, most spectacularly after bringing a lawsuit against all and sundry. Have you read the claim? I have. It is quite delusional.

Lt. Walsh is mistaken about which elevator was blown out,

I have not seen where you have established which specific elevator he was talking about. If you have earlier identified which one it was, please repeat the elevator number.

Edit to add: and please provide a link to Lt. Walsh's statement that you are relying upon.
 
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Thanks R.Macray.

Just so I can get this right is this you think happened troothy ?

WTC 1

8:46:26. There is a massive explosion in the basement of WTC 1. Nobody notices, it goes totally unreported. At this point there as been no plane hit anywhere and no attack is underway. But it is recorded by seismologists.

8:46:40. (14 seconds later) Plane hits Tower. This is not recorded by seismic records as the Tower absorbs the noise

10:28:25.Tower starts to collapse in total silence.

10:28:31. Six second after the Tower had started to collapse seismologist’s record noises coming from WTC 1. This clearly is not the sound of the collapse, since at this point is has been collapsing in total silence for six seconds.

WTC 2

9:02:54. Another massive explosion takes place, presumably in the basement of WTC 2. In the confusion nobody notices. But it is recorded by seismologists

9:03:11. Seventeen seconds later, incredibly another plane hits the second Tower where this massive explosion has taken place. This impact is not picked up by seismologists; again the Tower absorbs the noise.

9:58:59. This Tower starts to collapse in total silence.

9:59:04. Five seconds after this Tower starts to collapse seismologist’s record noises coming from WTC 2. This is not the sound of the collapse as it has been underway for some five seconds by this point and has been totally silent.

Ok troothy is that about the sum of your theory ?
Or maybe you would like to throw a few seismic records from WTC 7 into the mix as well.

I just want to be sure you’re not making this up,that’s all.
 
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State of grace issued strawman arguments, beginning with
8:46:26. There is a massive explosion in the basement of WTC 1. Nobody notices, it goes totally unreported.
William Rodriguez and the others certianly noticed the huge explosion, and they certainly reported it. Rodriguez testified to the 9/11 commission, who ignored him and left him out of the report. Rodriguez also arranged for others who were there to testify to the 9/11 commission. The Commission refused to hear their testimony at all.

Have you not seen the video clips of the news reporters talking breathlessly about a "huge explosion"?
 
William Rodriguez and the others certianly noticed the huge explosion, and they certainly reported it. Rodriguez testified to the 9/11 commission, who ignored him and left him out of the report. Rodriguez also arranged for others who were there to testify to the 9/11 commission. The Commission refused to hear their testimony at all.

Willaim Rodriguez's statements

A very credulous article containing their statements

Prison Planet said:
[Felipe David:] “That day I was in the basement in sub-level 1 sometime after 8:30am. Everything happened so fast, everything moved so fast. The building started shaking after I heard the explosion below, dust was flying everywhere and all of a sudden it got real hot."

[Salvatore Giambanco:] “Later they told me it was an airplane that hit the towers, but how could it just be an airplane? I know all the newspapers were saying that, but it was just too incredible to believe if you heard and experienced what I did. It had to be a bomb.”

Never mind that the phenomenology they describe ("gust of wind," fireball, burn damage) is utterly inconsistent with explosives... but the timing is pretty damn tight. Certainly no evidence of 14 to 17 seconds delay! Their testimony is inconsistent with your story. Read carefully and stop cherry-picking.

TruthSeeker1234, are you next going to tell us these unfortunate people had watches synchronzed to UTC as well? You still haven't addressed that question about the seismographs.

In short, you've got nothing. Nothing at all.
 
In William Rodrigues's own word in this video he states that he heard an "explosion" one or two seconds before the plane impact:
http://www.911blogger.com/2005/10/william-rodriguez-and-greg-szymanski.html
Here's the link to the video itself from the above site:
http://www.archive.org/download/inn/innrodriguesisdnsept05snow.wmv

2 minutes and 13 seconds into the video Mr. Rodrigues says that there was an explosion "one or two seconds" before the airplane impact. It has been shown how sounds of the impact can be heard in the basement via the support structures before sounds from the impact arrive from the outside .
Some simple calculation found the times to 1.14 and 1.24 seconds.
This would seem to coincide with Mr. Rodrigues's statement

Here's the page where the times were worked out:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=63740&page=7
 
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Since you choose to address one statement I made, not very successfully by the way. Other members have already addressed your witness. Am I now to take it that you therefore agree with the rest? In fact since you don't disagree am I to assume you agree with this.

I will amend my "straw man" statements for you to address fully.

WTC 1

8:46:26. There is a massive explosion in the basement of WTC 1. Nobody notices. Except William Rodriguez and the others( as yet unknown persons) who heard what they thought sounded like explosions a few seconds before the plane hit. Although this as been thoroughly explained to you, you still refuse to accept it. At this point there as been no plane hit anywhere and no attack is underway. But it is recorded by seismologists.

8:46:40. (14 seconds later) Plane hits Tower. This is not recorded by seismic records as the Tower absorbs the noise

10:28:25.Tower starts to collapse in total silence.

10:28:31. Six second after the Tower had started to collapse seismologist’s record noises coming from WTC 1. This clearly is not the sound of the collapse, since at this point is has been collapsing in total silence for six seconds.

WTC 2

9:02:54. Another massive explosion takes place, presumably in the basement of WTC 2. In the confusion nobody notices. But it is recorded by seismologists

9:03:11. Seventeen seconds later, incredibly another plane hits the second Tower where this massive explosion has taken place. This impact is not picked up by seismologists; again the Tower absorbs the noise.

9:58:59. This Tower starts to collapse in total silence.

9:59:04. Five seconds after this Tower starts to collapse seismologist’s record noises coming from WTC 2. This is not the sound of the collapse as it has been underway for some five seconds by this point and has been totally silent.

Ok troothy is that about the sum of your theory?
Or maybe you would like to throw a few seismic records from WTC 7 into the mix as well.

I just want to be sure you’re not making this up, that’s all.

Oh just out of interest how do these explosives 14 and 17 seconds before the planes hit actually contribute to the pulverization of concrete?
Did I miss out a few more events is your special theory?
 
Since you choose to address one statement I made, not very successfully by the way. Other members have already addressed your witness. Am I now to take it that you therefore agree with the rest? In fact since you don't disagree am I to assume you agree with this.

I will amend my "straw man" statements for you to address fully.

WTC 1

8:46:26. There is a massive explosion in the basement of WTC 1. Nobody notices. Except William Rodriguez and the others( as yet unknown persons) who heard what they thought sounded like explosions a few seconds before the plane hit. Although this as been thoroughly explained to you, you still refuse to accept it. At this point there as been no plane hit anywhere and no attack is underway. But it is recorded by seismologists.
So, Rodriguez and company don't know an explosion coming from below as opposed to one coming from above?

Well, what was the explosion he heard a few moments later that sounded like it came from way-high above?

That's two explosions with an interval of time in between. Did Rodriguez lie about the second explosion? Was it an echo? Was it jet fuel fire continuing to snake it's way through the building? (The Ginny Carr audiotape indicates it was about 9.2 seconds later.)

On another item, I don't have to show LDEO was synched to UTC. NIST acquired the services of LDEO's Dr. Kim in 2005 to "firm up" their bogus 8:46:30 time of "impact". So, by inference, NIST qualified the seismic to UTC. (Either that or NIST is wrong, which is not palpable to you).

The official 9/11 story has a problem:
NIST comes out with its time for WTC1 at 8:46:30; however, the FAA had one last radar signal from AA Flt 11 that occurred at 8:46:40, when it disappeared in front of the controller's eyes. To whomever asked for the flight study, it's in the report (if you could only read), but here it is again:
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc01.pdf

That's still 10 seconds difference in the world of precision timing, all backed by numerous witnesses.


Remember when I said there is more information out there to cast reasonable doubt on the official 9/11 story?

Forgive me for getting off topic, but why don't you chew on this, since so many Americans are being played for suckers by Bush and by those who control him. Here is more evidence of the inside job, uncontested facts that have been essentially buried by the US media:
http://www.gnn.tv/articles/2558/Five_Years...ory_Falls_Apart

Five Years Later: The Official Story Falls Apart
Tue, 19 Sep 2006 11:38:41 -070 by Sander Hicks

EXCERPT.......
---------------------

The most relevant example of the whole guilty lot of them is Richard Armitage. In 1989, he couldn’t get a job in President Bush the First’s Department of State, because of his odious Defense Department work with Iran/Contra criminal Oliver North. Skip ahead a scant 12 years later, to the summer of 2001: Armitage sails into a position as Assistant Secretary of State, without a peep from the media or Senate Foreign Relations Committee. After a lifetime in CIA/DIA circles, Armitage happens to hold the highest civilian decoration from the Pakistani military, and has deep social ties there, from his work in the Afghan/Soviet civil war.

Remember that one? That was the 1979-1988 operation where bin Laden, the Mujahedeen, and the Pakistani intelligence group, ISI, were used as proxies for the U.S. military, a mix that later created the Taliban, which helped create Al Qaeda. The 9/11 Commission Report distored all this, because it’s at the core of understanding 9/11.

Also noticeably missing from the Report is Richard Armitage’s close relationship to the Pakistani funders of 9/11. The Report incredibly states that discovering the funding for 9/11 is “of little practical significance.” However, the FBI, the Wall Street Journal, and the Times of India have all acknowledged that Pakistani ISI Chief Mahmood Ahmad wired $100,000 to Mohamed Atta on Sept. 10, 2001. Ahmad had met extensively that May with the State Department’s Richard Armitage, and CIA Director George Tenet, in Pakistan. On the morning of 9/11, Ahmad was in D.C., meeting with Representative (and later CIA director) Porter Goss and Senator Bob Graham. When news of Mahmood Ahmad’s wire transfer reached his home country, he was let go, a month after 9/11. The Pakistani ISI works very closely with the U.S. State Department, and handlers like Armitage. Ahmad was fired quietly, when he should have been arrested, extradited, and served up to the American public as a culprit for the attacks. Remember how high the passions flared in October, 2001? Instead, the whole incident was buried. Ahmad walked.

Asia Times called the Ahmad scandal 9/11’s “real smoking gun.” There’s been zero coverage in the U.S. media. The White House edited Ahmad’s name out of the official transcript, the one time Condi Rice was asked about the scandal at a press conference. Instead of prosecuting Ahmad, the U.S. gave Pakistan an aid package of $3 billion over five years, right after 9/11.

---------------------

These are known facts. The CIA has been working through Pakistan's ISI with Al Qaeda all along. The funding of same has been done through the opium trade. This has been going on since the beginning when the CIA set up Al Qaeda back in the '80s during the Afghan-Soviet War. THIS HAS NEVER STOPPED.

Yes, the US gov't WAS highly involved in 9/11. It is the linchpin for the "War on Terrorism"--a "war" that is a total fabrication with no end, a means to global hegemony & empire, and is Satanic in nature as is the New World Order. Unfortunately, most of America has been dumbed-down, and as a result, the hatred for America has grown immeasurably throughout the world because of crimes of war, aggression, and torture.

Or maybe you just like your government lying to you all the time?

Research the above excerpt from Sander's article for yourself and learn what a sucker you've been.

And if you don't, well, you simply prove the point about being a sucker.

Remember, real patriots are for America AND the truth.
 
and is Satanic in nature as is the New World Order.

Still my heart and please tell me you do not purport any "reptilian dna" or "Seed of Cain" in this satanic nature creating a new world order of cloak n dagger and secret handshaking sob's??

David Icke??
 
On another item, I don't have to show LDEO was synched to UTC. NIST acquired the services of LDEO's Dr. Kim in 2005 to "firm up" their bogus 8:46:30 time of "impact". So, by inference, NIST qualified the seismic to UTC. (Either that or NIST is wrong, which is not palpable to you).

What a bunch of crap.

Your entire paper is based on this bogus assertion. We have shown that, if it was true, there are a number of other consequences that don't agree with any other observed evidence, including the witnesses that you trotted out as a diversion.

Fix your paper or get lost. You are a fraud.
 
The report says 'about" and "approximately" each and everytime it mentions time. It also states that the USAF radar had "less precise" information concerning altitude info since the aircrafts transponders were shut off.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/doc01.pdf

Gee, do you think " or "about" and "approximately" means "precisely" or "exactly"?
 
Or maybe you just like your government lying to you all the time?

Research the above excerpt from Sander's article for yourself and learn what a sucker you've been.

And if you don't, well, you simply prove the point about being a sucker.

Remember, real patriots are for America AND the truth.
I am not American. I do not care what your Government says. I make up my own mind on the evidence that is presented by real scientists, experts and academics unlike pseudo researchers like you.

Don't you dare call anybody a sucker because they don't subscribe to your garbage. Stop hiding behind your self righteous mask of savoir of humanity and show yourself for what you are. That being a loser who would prefer to accuses fellow Americans of mass murder than accept reality. Reality being Islamic extremism is real. Accuse away you slime ball but expect no civility from me. You are the repulsive creature that suckers naive teenagers into believing your nonsense. Making out you are some sort of scholar, when the reality is you are one of lives losers who has nothing better to do that jump on ridiculous theories, make a load of garbage up and try to suck your way to the top of this pathetic movements tree.

You are not accusing the US government you are accusing Americans of not only planning but executing and covering up mass murder of their fellow countrymen. You do so on the slenderest of evidence, tied together with some insane form of rational.

You are not "just asking questions” you are pointing the finger, distorting the truth and lying for your own benefit. It makes you feel important; it makes you feel you are empowered with some divine knowledge and gives a great buzz that other loony’s look up to you. You like the hero worship you feel you are getting and glory in accolade of the limelight.

You do this on the backs of the innocent victims who died in the most appalling circumstance and their families, who you wrongly believe you represent and support you. You call those that tried to help liars and those that witnessed it all liars.You twist and distort statements to squeeze them into your theories.You call those experts that trash your theories shills or neocons and those that don’t agree with you suckers.

And no it’s not because I have run our of debunking stuff to throw at you, I am hurling insults at you because; you and your fellow creature Ross deserve it. You deserve much more but for this moment I am simply happy that your life is so miserable that you have to resort to such nonsense to fill the void. You richly deserve your pathetic existence and long may it continue. Now scuttle off back to your precious movement, spout your garbage and continue to make a mockery of this event.

You make me sick.
 
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It gets so tiring being accused of being a 'sucker' or brainwashed by these idiots.

How arrogant can people be?
 
State of grace issued strawman arguments, beginning with
William Rodriguez and the others certianly noticed the huge explosion, and they certainly reported it. Rodriguez testified to the 9/11 commission, who ignored him and left him out of the report. Rodriguez also arranged for others who were there to testify to the 9/11 commission. The Commission refused to hear their testimony at all.

Have you not seen the video clips of the news reporters talking breathlessly about a "huge explosion"?

Did some of the eyewitnesses agree with the "2 second - 2 explosions" story of Willy?
 
hey, everybody--
Next meeting you are in, have everybody simultaneously look at their watches and wrIte down the time, to the nearest second. Whatcha wanna bet the differences will be anywhere from a few seconds to a couple of minutes--and every one of them will have "set my watch with the..." radio station, cell phone, tv--WHATEVER...within the last few days....
 
The CT'ers seem to be ignoring the fact that Rodriguez's one or two seconds testimony does not coincide with the 10 second siesmic discrepency.
 
blah blah blah CT bullcrap blah blah blah phony pseudo research blah blah blah cherry picking witnesses blah blah blah misrepresenting facts blah blah blah just for good measure drag out "patriotism" blah blah blah.

Your poor research skills and unsubstantiated nonsense might pass muster at DU, quicknthedead, where you are simply preaching to the choir, but it doesn't pass here.
 
What a bunch of crap.

Your entire paper is based on this bogus assertion. We have shown that, if it was true, there are a number of other consequences that don't agree with any other observed evidence, including the witnesses that you trotted out as a diversion.

Fix your paper or get lost. You are a fraud.

1) Indeed.
2) Exactly.
3) Exactly.
 
I am not American. I do not care what your Government says. I make up my own mind on the evidence that is presented by real scientists, experts and academics unlike pseudo researchers like you.

Don't you dare call anybody a sucker because they don't subscribe to your garbage. Stop hiding behind your self righteous mask of savoir of humanity and show yourself for what you are. That being a loser who would prefer to accuses fellow Americans of mass murder than accept reality. Reality being Islamic extremism is real. Accuse away you slime ball but expect no civility from me. You are the repulsive creature that suckers naive teenagers into believing your nonsense. Making out you are some sort of scholar, when the reality is you are one of lives losers who has nothing better to do that jump on ridiculous theories, make a load of garbage up and try to suck your way to the top of this pathetic movements tree.

You are not accusing the US government you are accusing Americans of not only planning but executing and covering up mass murder of their fellow countrymen. You do so on the slenderest of evidence, tied together with some insane form of rational.

You are not "just asking questions” you are pointing the finger, distorting the truth and lying for your own benefit. It makes you feel important; it makes you feel you are empowered with some divine knowledge and gives a great buzz that other loony’s look up to you. You like the hero worship you feel you are getting and glory in accolade of the limelight.

You do this on the backs of the innocent victims who died in the most appalling circumstance and their families, who you wrongly believe you represent and support you. You call those that tried to help liars and those that witnessed it all liars.You twist and distort statements to squeeze them into your theories.You call those experts that trash your theories shills or neocons and those that don’t agree with you suckers.

And no it’s not because I have run our of debunking stuff to throw at you, I am hurling insults at you because; you and your fellow creature Ross deserve it. You deserve much more but for this moment I am simply happy that your life is so miserable that you have to resort to such nonsense to fill the void. You richly deserve your pathetic existence and long may it continue. Now scuttle off back to your precious movement, spout your garbage and continue to make a mockery of this event.

You make me sick.

That was a most righteous and utterly enjoyable rant, stateofgrace. Well done, indeed. :)
 

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