Siesmic Evidence Proves Inside Job?

[TruthSeeker1234]

Dogtown, you live in L.A. How about a televised debate with me on the WTC "collapses". You can insult me just like you do here, no one will stop you. You can use your time anyway you want. Wouldn't that be fun?

 

[defaultdotxbe]

From the Ross/Furlong:


page 3

says nothign about them being "no more than fraction of a second off"

and how about those seismos?

 

[R.Mackey]

From the Ross/Furlong:

Also, an Air Traffic Controller replied to this investigation stating that a time-check is done daily by all stations to make sure that all radar tracking is precisely coordinated to UTC.

page 3

This is pretty darn shaky. No source.

And again, I was talking about the seismographs. The name of the paper is "Seismic Proof – 9/11 Was An Inside Job (Updated Version II)" is it not? So where's this seismic proof? Show me those clocks were calibrated.

I've been saying this for six pages now.

 

[Dog Town]

Dogtown, you live in L.A. How about a televised debate with me on the WTC "collapses". You can insult me just like you do here, no one will stop you. You can use your time anyway you want. Wouldn't that be fun?

Besides the fact, I go on the road soon, I would never waste that much of my time on the likes of you. Words of wisdom; pray that we never meet in person. I am not near as calm and nice as the folks here.No "threat" just the truth! My assistants will keep me up todate on here, and slc, as I will have little time.
I am sure when I do though, you will still be here, getting your negative attention fix. I hope no one wastes much more time on you! You bring nothing to the table, but a rehash of nonsense, that you never answer!!

 

[LashL]

The observations of an elevator blown off its hinges comes from Lt. Walsh.



A blown out elevator, with or without hinges is evidence of some type of explosion. The fact that the blown out elevator went down to the basement, but did not go up to the impact area, is strong evidence that the explosion came from below.

Again, as with this entire paper, you anti-science guys are tossing out data simply because it conflicts with your hypothesis.

Ahem. The elevator doors in the WTC towers most assuredly were not hinged doors. The fact that you accept unquestioningly the use of a common metaphor that you found in one of hundreds of interviews conducted as "proof" of something that is demonstrably false, while you simultaneously completely and consistently ignore actual facts is very telling of who here is "anti-science". Actually, I suspect that you are incapable of comprehending science rather than being opposed to it, but you are obviously oblivious to facts and evidence to such an extreme that one can only reasonably conclude that you are anti-facts and anti-evidence.

The fact that fireballs blew out elevator doors is not evidence of planted explosive devices. There were numerous elevator doors damaged and numerous fires in numerous shafts. As has been pointed out to you repeatedly, there was more than one express elevator in each tower, and there was not only one shaft that ran from the top to the bottom.

The paper that you cite is hopelessly inadequate, as has been pointed out to you repeatedly. Your choosing to ignore and run away from the evidence presented to you by others here is apparent to all.

For crying out loud, man, give your head a shake.

Edit to add: and I'm still waiting for you to name those 36 witnesses and provide evidence of their statements that you claim support William Rodriguez' story. I wasted 50 minutes of my life watching the video and there is only person identified who tells a story about being in the sub basement and the account (as translated by Mr. Rodriguez himself) does not actually support his story very well at all.

 

[hellaeon]

TS, do this. Burn down your house. First, turn everything electrical on. All appliances. Count the number of things that explode starting with perspirant cans. Also, dont plant explosives for the purpose of this experiment. We can do that next house.

This may help you understand simple concepts about how fire works and such before exploring the vast complicated theories the guys around here are well versed in.

Edit: Even Better! Go buy a heap of flammable items, like cleaners and solvents, more perspirant cans etc etc. Put them everywhere before you burn down the house. This way you can be sure to understand that

fire + explosions != explosives

 

[Regnad Kcin]

...the fact that this thread, like so many others, is 90% ad hominem attacks, well this is just reassuring.

Says the guy who likens those who have repeatedly refuted his claims to Holocaust deniers.

 

[TruthSeeker1234]

In response to an eyewitness who stated on the record that he observed a particular elevator had been blown out


LashL contended

The elevator doors in the WTC towers most assuredly were not hinged doors. The fact that you accept unquestioningly the use of a common metaphor that you found in one of hundreds of interviews conducted as "proof" of something that is demonstrably false

Lash, please demonstrate that Lt. Walsh's observations and testimony are false. Whether this particular elevator literally had hinges or not is beside the point. Clearly the man was describing an elevator that had been blown out. Just as clearly, he notes that this particular elevator went down to the basement, but not up to the damage area.

Lash, please demonstrate that Lt. Walsh's observations and testimony are false, or else retract your allegation.

 

[Bell]

In response to an eyewitness who stated on the record that he observed a particular elevator had been blown out

BS101, could you explain to us what standard you employ as to which witnesses and testomonies are to be believed and which not?

Or do you only believe evidence when it fits your BS freefall pulverisation myth? You can answer this question with yes.

LashL contended
Lash, please demonstrate that Lt. Walsh's observations and testimony are false. Whether this particular elevator literally had hinges or not is beside the point. Clearly the man was describing an elevator that had been blown out. Just as clearly, he notes that this particular elevator went down to the basement, but not up to the damage area.

Lash, please demonstrate that Lt. Walsh's observations and testimony are false, or else retract your allegation.

Are you the same BS101 that said Todd Beamer called 911 and accused Lisa Jefferson (of GTE ofcourse, not 911) of lying? And after you have been shown that you where wrong, you said she 'could' be lying? (edit: here)

I find it troubling that you want LashL to retract his remark, while all you are doing is lying, which btw is proven, even by yourself. (edit: here)

BS101, in what kind of dillusional world do you live?

 

[smother]

Regarding the elevator system/shaft layout....

The elevator system was (as some will know) delivered by Otis elevator systems:

http://www.otis.com/otis150/section/1,2344,ARC2495_CLI41_RES1_SEC5,00.html

I have not found anything conclusive about the elevator shafts so I wrote Otis this email:

Hi,

I have an inquiry about the the elevator systems in WTC. The thing is I am spending some time debunking all the outrageous lies and claims that conspiracy nuts are spewing on a daily basis.

I am not sure you are aware of this but a movie called Loose Change is claiming that 9/11 was an inside job. An outrageous claim - but still it is a claim that needs to be debunked. One of the claims in this movie is that WTC was brought down with explosives and the same group of people also claims that the fireball that shot down the elevator shafts all the way to the basement never existed, simply because none of the elevator shafts went all the way from the top to the basement.

I have tried to find all the information about this issue - but there seems to be only a limited amount of information out there. So my next step was to go to the supplier of the elevator systems in WTC, that would be Otis.

My question to you is: as far as I can see there was one freight elevator in each tower going from top to bottom, but were there any express elevators going all the way or were they simply connecting the lobby with the sky lobbies on 44th and 78th floor? I can also see that the local elevators were stacked in the same elevator shafts, but were these elevator shafts separated in any way?

I would really appreciate your help on these questions and also if you have any other information that could be used regarding the elevator systems in WTC. I hope you will agree with me that the 9/11 victims deserve the truth and not these fabricated lies made by a group of conspiracy nuts.

Thank you very much in advance

Regards

They should know.

 

[cloudshipsrule]

WOW. This 'special' controlled demolition is getting even more special as the conspiracy evolves.

So, say explosives were in place, somewhere in the lower nether regions of the towers, before the planes struck. They were set off just as the plane struck, or perhaps 17 seconds before impact.

So, the experts who wired this CD put just enough explosives down their to blow out an elevator door, making it look like it was just the plane's burning jet fuel/explosion traveling down an elevator shaft. This was done to add validity to the 'plane taking down the building' theory that the gub' shills would leak to the press later in the day.

The building then remained 'upright' for the next 90 or so minutes before the final explosives were set off at approximately the same level as the plane strike. (Of course these upper level explosives were 'specially' rigged so that the impact of a 757, laden with 60,000 pounds of jet fuel, and subsequent fire wouldn't detonate the explosives prematurely, because then it would have looked as if the plane actually took down the building. (That would have been pretty suspicious!)

I have an old barn in my backyard. Wonder if these same CD specialist guys are for hire? I'd like to run my riding lawn mower into the side of the barn (full of gas, mind you), then have the barn collapse in on itself about an hour and a half later. I'd like to see if I can fool my neighbors into thinking the lawn mower actually took down the barn.

 

[CurtC]

Lash, please demonstrate that Lt. Walsh's observations and testimony are false. Whether this particular elevator literally had hinges or not is beside the point.

Beside the point? You state Walsh's off-the-cuff statement that the elevator doors were blown off their hinges as a completely accurate account, we scold you because everyone knows elevator doors don't have hinges, and now you defend your statements while saying that whether they have hinges is beside the point? It was the point we were talking about!

To summarize, Walsh described the doors being blown out, and chose words that he probably wouldn't have had he thought his statement through beforehand. That's OK, we all know what he means. Except you.

Then we describe why elevator doors being blown out is not a sign of explosives, the description of events by Willie Rodriguez does not sound like explosives, and the injuries reported to people there do not sound like explosives, but all are much more consistent with a jet fuel fireball. You blithely ignore all of this.

 

[rwguinn]

In response to an eyewitness who stated on the record that he observed a particular elevator had been blown out


LashL contended
Lash, please demonstrate that Lt. Walsh's observations and testimony are false. Whether this particular elevator literally had hinges or not is beside the point. Clearly the man was describing an elevator that had been blown out. Just as clearly, he notes that this particular elevator went down to the basement, but not up to the damage area.

Lash, please demonstrate that Lt. Walsh's observations and testimony are false, or else retract your allegation.

Where is the link that shows the seismographic recordings were syncronized to a standard.
We want evidence, not assertions.
Don't bother changing the subject. No responses will be made until this is cleared up.
You have made an assertion. Back it up.
Lying %^$#ole.

 

[twinstead]

troothydude you imply with every post that all evidence and every observation and testimony that is contrary to your position, no matter if it was from the Pentagon, flight 93 or the WTC, is false.

I'd expect you to deal with that before you get on your high horse about Lt. Walsh's observations and testimony. It just makes you look like a biased, hypocritical fool.

 

[rwguinn]

Bumped so that SFB1234 can answer the questions:
Where is the link that shows the seismographic recordings were syncronized with a standard?
We want evidence, not assertions.
Don't bother changing the subject. No responses will be made until this is cleared up.
You have made an assertion. Back it up.

 

[LashL]

In response to an eyewitness who stated on the record that he observed a particular elevator had been blown out


LashL contended
Lash, please demonstrate that Lt. Walsh's observations and testimony are false. Whether this particular elevator literally had hinges or not is beside the point. Clearly the man was describing an elevator that had been blown out. Just as clearly, he notes that this particular elevator went down to the basement, but not up to the damage area.

Lash, please demonstrate that Lt. Walsh's observations and testimony are false, or else retract your allegation.

Mr. Walsh was using a common metaphor, as should be obvious even to an anti-intellectual such as yourself. I made no allegation that his testimony was "false" and I have nothing to retract.

As I have said repeatedly, there were elevators blown out. That is not, however, evidence of pre-planted explosives.

Do try to read for comprehension.

And, by the way, where is the link that shows the seismographic recordings were syncronized to a standard? Please provide evidence, not merely assertions.

 

[TruthSeeker1234]

As I have said repeatedly, there were elevators blown out. That is not, however, evidence of pre-planted explosives.

Sure it is, Lash. I have not "ignored" the claim that a fireball caused the observations of the elevator, and the blown out windows, and the explosion experienced by Wiliam Rodriquez and the others. I consider this claim. The elevator in question did not go up to the impact zone. Therefore there is no shaft to conduct the fireball down to where it is alleged to have caused all this damage. The elevators which did go up to the impact zone were not, blown out. Thus the evidence is consistent with an explosion in the basement, and is inconsistent with a fireball travelling down the elevator shaft.

When you combine this evidence with the eyewitness testimony which states that the basement explosion occurred before the jet impact, then corroborate all of that with the seismic data and the radar data, you have a very compelling case for an explosion in the basement.

This thread has clearly touched a nerve with you anti-science guys. The only thing you have come up with is the possibility that LDEO's clocks were behind by 17 seconds! This is a huge accusation. This is a scientific observatory whose accuracy crucially depends on correct timestamping.

So to believe the official account, we have to believe that LDEO's clocks were behind by 17 seconds, and Wiliam Rodriguez (and the others) were mistaken about the timing and location of the explosion, and these mistaken recollections match the mistaken timings of LDEO (quite a coincidence), and that Lt. Walsh is mistaken about which elevator was blown out, and this mistake coincidentally corroborates the mistaken eyewitness testimony and the mistaken seismic times?!??! This is what I am supposed to believe ???

 

[Oliver]

Sure it is, Lash. I have not "ignored" the claim that a fireball caused the observations of the elevator, and the blown out windows, and the explosion experienced by Wiliam Rodriquez and the others. I consider this claim. The elevator in question did not go up to the impact zone. Therefore there is no shaft to conduct the fireball down to where it is alleged to have caused all this damage. The elevators which did go up to the impact zone were not, blown out. Thus the evidence is consistent with an explosion in the basement, and is inconsistent with a fireball travelling down the elevator shaft.

When you combine this evidence with the eyewitness testimony which states that the basement explosion occurred before the jet impact, then corroborate all of that with the seismic data and the radar data, you have a very compelling case for an explosion in the basement.

This thread has clearly touched a nerve with you anti-science guys. The only thing you have come up with is the possibility that LDEO's clocks were behind by 17 seconds! This is a huge accusation. This is a scientific observatory whose accuracy crucially depends on correct timestamping.

So to believe the official account, we have to believe that LDEO's clocks were behind by 17 seconds, and Wiliam Rodriguez (and the others) were mistaken about the timing and location of the explosion, and these mistaken recollections match the mistaken timings of LDEO (quite a coincidence), and that Lt. Walsh is mistaken about which elevator was blown out, and this mistake coincidentally corroborates the mistaken eyewitness testimony and the mistaken seismic times?!??! This is what I am supposed to believe ???

Could someone quote me - i think i´m on his "ignored because false truth"-list.

What are you going to do if the CD-Theory is true because some Vids, Pics, Seismos and Dust?
What is the truth-movements next step?

 

[stateofgrace]

I am curious and I genuinely cannot find the information I am looking for.

Could anybody help out here?

TS maintains that explosions took place 17 and 14 seconds before the planes hit as it was recorded by seismologists.

My question is does anybody know the official time that each Tower started to collapse? And do they compare and tie in with seismic readings or is there a discrepancy also?

Just curious.

 

[R.Mackey]

So to believe the official account, we have to believe that LDEO's clocks were behind by 17 seconds, and Wiliam Rodriguez (and the others) were mistaken about the timing and location of the explosion, and these mistaken recollections match the mistaken timings of LDEO (quite a coincidence), and that Lt. Walsh is mistaken about which elevator was blown out, and this mistake coincidentally corroborates the mistaken eyewitness testimony and the mistaken seismic times?!??! This is what I am supposed to believe ???

Yet you would have us believe the alternative?

"Accusing" LDEO of being 17 seconds (my guess is 12, actually) off, compared to "accusing" the entire US Government of carrying out mass murder? You're saying we are levying a "huge accusation?"

Believing a simple calibration error and reinterpreting a couple of badly quoted witness statements, versus believing the presence of hidden bombs that detonated before impact, and a similar discrepancy upon collapse suggesting even more hidden bombs brought the buildings down?

Darn right that's what we expect you to believe.

By the way, you have a debate to run. I've bet that you won't. Prove me wrong about that, too.