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Shutdown 2023

Beelzebuddy said:
Why is it always the Democrats' responsibility to throw the bone? Let McCarthy put forward a straight funding plan with no GOP cuts and the Democrats in the house will vote for it. They're not the ones demanding a shutdown. This whole ****show is entirely on his head.
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Its called "compromise". Its how things get done in govt. In 2017 Chuck Schumer offered Trump like 30 billion to build a wall in exchange for codifying DACA. It's called compromise.
 
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Beelzebuddy said:
Why is it always the Democrats' responsibility to throw the bone?
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Same reason as to why it's always down to parents taking care that nothing bad happens when it comes to the family. Little brat kids don't care about anything. Parents have to be the grown-ups.
 
Honest question:

Which political party is damaged by a shutdown? Does it impact the public's perceptions that much at all?

I can see it both ways. It's Biden's administration so maybe anything bad that happens reflects poorly on him indirectly, but it's also quite obvious that any shutdown will be 100% the fault of the Republican party being so chock full of nutbags that it's totally dysfunctional.
 
Why should the Democrats throw Republicans little five billion dollar bone? Cuz they are the adults in the room. Give McCarthy a little bull **** so he can save face. But no I do not in any way think the Democrats should cave to any of their big demands. Not without something major in return that Democrats want, like codified DACA.
 
Hercules56 said:
Its called "compromise". Its how things get done in govt. In 2017 Chuck Schumer offered Trump like 30 billion to build a wall in exchange for codifying DACA. It's called compromise.
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Oh I remember that well. Trump went all Rainman when it came to answering why he turned that one down.
Trump: "Bad deal. It's just a bad deal."
The press": "What was wrong with it?"
Trump: "Bad deal. It's just a bad deal."
The press:" No, seriously, what was so bad about it?"
Trump: "Bad deal. It's just a bad deal."
The press: "Well can you explain exactly why it was a bad deal?"
Trump: "Bad deal. It's just a bad deal."
 
Mike! said:
Oh I remember that well. Trump went all Rainman when it came to answering why he turned that one down.
Trump: "Bad deal. It's just a bad deal."
The press": "What was wrong with it?"
Trump: "Bad deal. It's just a bad deal."
The press:" No, seriously, what was so bad about it?"
Trump: "Bad deal. It's just a bad deal."
The press: "Well can you explain exactly why it was a bad deal?"
Trump: "Bad deal. It's just a bad deal."
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It would have been a major success for him. And a major campaign ad for 2020. But for some reason his people told him no no we have to have lots of immigration changes to. Morons, they had it all and they threw it away.
 
TurkeysGhost said:
Honest question:

Which political party is damaged by a shutdown? Does it impact the public's perceptions that much at all?

I can see it both ways. It's Biden's administration so maybe anything bad that happens reflects poorly on him indirectly, but it's also quite obvious that any shutdown will be 100% the fault of the Republican party being so chock full of nutbags that it's totally dysfunctional.
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Best guess? (This is 100% layperson gut feeling, I'm married to none of it, fair?)

The Dems. Because most people still fall for the rhetoric, thinking that any actual battle over a budget is really what is going on and they think of THAT in the context of their own personal budgets.

The "Tax and Spend Democrat" is still at thing a lot of people think exists.

I think (again gut feeling) that a LOT of people can't get past the over simplified "If I budgeted my house / small business like I'd be broke!" and can't or won't understand that the situations are radically different.
 
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TurkeysGhost said:
Honest question:

Which political party is damaged by a shutdown? Does it impact the public's perceptions that much at all?

I can see it both ways. It's Biden's administration so maybe anything bad that happens reflects poorly on him indirectly, but it's also quite obvious that any shutdown will be 100% the fault of the Republican party being so chock full of nutbags that it's totally dysfunctional.
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The MSM has made it clear that McCarthy is dealing with a very small minority that is causing big problems, and the Senate has offered a compromise bill that the House will probably reject.

Only hardcore MAGAts will blame the Democrats.
 
carlosy said:
Same reason as to why it's always down to parents taking care that nothing bad happens when it comes to the family. Little brat kids don't care about anything. Parents have to be the grown-ups.
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A big part of parenting is knowing when not to give in. When the kid is in full-blown meltdown mode is the worst possible time to give them whatever they're asking for.

TurkeysGhost said:
Honest question:

Which political party is damaged by a shutdown? Does it impact the public's perceptions that much at all?

I can see it both ways. It's Biden's administration so maybe anything bad that happens reflects poorly on him indirectly, but it's also quite obvious that any shutdown will be 100% the fault of the Republican party being so chock full of nutbags that it's totally dysfunctional.
Click to expand...
Which party will wind up looking worse as the shutdown lengthens is always the question. Previous shutdowns were initiated by Republicans, and ended by Republicans because it's always been the Republicans who got the flak. People are easily fooled but they ain't stupid.

This time it's Republicans who are forcing a shutdown instead of cooperating with Republicans. The only thing Democrats have to do is stand to the side and bring popcorn.
 
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Hercules56 said:
It would have been a major success for him. And a major campaign ad for 2020. But for some reason his people told him no no we have to have lots of immigration changes to. Morons, they had it all and they threw it away.
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It can't be said enough: their goal isn't to make government work smoothly; it's to make it suck and blame somebody else.

These people don't get elected by solving problems, they get elected by demonizing the other side. If they actually tried to solve immigration (or anything), one of two things would happen:

1)Their proposals would be proven to be ineffective wastes of money that they actually put no effort or research into; and/or
2) They would have to find something else to blame on Democrats.

I don't believe that the general public is going to see that this is a high school level popularity contest between children. I'm around too many Republicans where I live; they ALWAYS blame the Democrats.
 
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Donal said:
Like I said, Speaker-In-Name. For all my criticisms of Pelosi (and there are many), she could get the various, far more diverse, factions of her party to come together.

McCarthy got the role because it was "his turn". And we all know how well that works in politics. The fact that it took over a dozen votes should have told him something.
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McCarthy got the job because he was the most popular Republican House member who actually wanted the job. Everyone else either doesn't want it or is more hated. That's why the Speakership fight was so stupid.

If you ask the GOP Caucus if McCarthy should be speaker, you would get a majority saying "no". But then you are immediately led to the next question, "If not McCarthy, then who?", and they have no good answer for that. McCarthy is actually the best choice for the job that they have. It's the same problem they had with Boehner, and Ryan...
 
Hercules56 said:
GOP's only hope is to make a deal with the Dems. Or expel the 6 right-wing hold outs that are making their work impossible.
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Yuo don't need to expel them; just vote them down every tjime they try one of the parliamenary manuevers. You would never get two thirds t vote to expel them.
i maintian a lot of the problems with both houses would be fixed if they just droped all the crap procedures they have, and go back to Robert's Rule Of Order, the bible of Parliamentary procedure. Irony is Robert's Rules were designed to prevent exactly the situation you have in both houses.
 
Hercules56 said:
Its called "compromise". Its how things get done in govt. In 2017 Chuck Schumer offered Trump like 30 billion to build a wall in exchange for codifying DACA. It's called compromise.
Click to expand...

And how did that work out?

Remember all the concessions Obama, Reid, and Pelosi gave the Republicans before the ACA even got to the floor? They even renewed the Bush tax cuts to give the Republicans a show of good faith. What happened next? Have Republicans gotten better or worse since then?

Compromise only works when everyone is dealing in good faith. Otherwise, its just surrender.
 
Beelzebuddy said:
A big part of parenting is knowing when not to give in. When the kid is in full-blown meltdown mode is the worst possible time to give them whatever they're asking for.


Which party will wind up looking worse as the shutdown lengthens is always the question. Previous shutdowns were initiated by Republicans, and ended by Republicans because it's always been the Republicans who got the flak. People are easily fooled but they ain't stupid.

This time it's Republicans who are forcing a shutdown instead of cooperating with Republicans. The only thing Democrats have to do is stand to the side and bring popcorn.
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The House republicans remind me of the Orcs quarreling in Lord Of the Rings over their captives, and end up fighitng teach other in the face of their enemies.
 
Donal said:
And how did that work out?

Remember all the concessions Obama, Reid, and Pelosi gave the Republicans before the ACA even got to the floor? They even renewed the Bush tax cuts to give the Republicans a show of good faith. What happened next? Have Republicans gotten better or worse since then?

Compromise only works when everyone is dealing in good faith. Otherwise, its just surrender.
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And I maintain a democracy cannot last long that way, no matter which party is in power.
Frankly, that the Democrats now have a wing of the party that is just as hostile to compromise as the Tea Party is is NOT a good thing.
 
Donal said:
And how did that work out?

Remember all the concessions Obama, Reid, and Pelosi gave the Republicans before the ACA even got to the floor? They even renewed the Bush tax cuts to give the Republicans a show of good faith. What happened next? Have Republicans gotten better or worse since then?

Compromise only works when everyone is dealing in good faith. Otherwise, its just surrender.
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If the Democrats refused to compromise from now on, the government will no longer function. Compromise is a disgusting, dirty requirement of politics.
 
dudalb said:
And I maintain a democracy cannot last long that way, no matter which party is in power.
Frankly, that the Democrats now have a wing of the party that is just as hostile to compromise as the Tea Party is is NOT a good thing.
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Ya, but Manchin and Sinema are on their way out.
 
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