Shrien Dewani - Honeymoon murder

lonepinealex said:
Why would Monde testify differently last week when he said that Tongo had said it was the wife and made no mention of another woman?
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Lying is complicated. Keeping everything straight is obviously proving complicated. The list of things these guys can't agree upon is becoming so hard to keep track of that figuring out why they are telling this lie or that one has become a hopeless task. Hint: if everybody is lying, maybe they made the whole thing up ... ?
 
anglolawyer said:
Lying is complicated. Keeping everything straight is obviously proving complicated. The list of things these guys can't agree upon is becoming so hard to keep track of that figuring out why they are telling this lie or that one has become a hopeless task. Hint: if everybody is lying, maybe they made the whole thing up ... ?
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Yeah BUT, Monde promised last week that he would tell the truth this time. I think he said "cross my heart and hope to die" when the judge pressed him on it.
 
lonepinealex said:
Yeah BUT, Monde promised last week that he would tell the truth this time. I think he said "cross my heart and hope to die" when the judge pressed him on it.
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Sorry, I forgot that. Good point. He does keep saying it was all a long time ago so anyone could forget the minor details like whether they were killing a business person or a wife, where, how, how much for, what time, who was paying who and stuff like that.
 
Kaosium said:
You're welcome.

Regarding this other murder, I saw a claim that 'nothing was taken.' How can they know that if they didn't solve it? Think about it.
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Ok, I've had a little think. But all I can come up with is that his wife identified his belongings and found nothing missing.

Do you think there might have been a secret blueprint for nuclear weapons on him? That would be awesome.
 
lonepinealex said:
Why would Monde testify differently last week when he said that Tongo had said it was the wife and made no mention of another woman?
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He doesn't remember very well...nothing new.

What is interesting is that he mentions the "two women" at all. There was no other woman. So where would he get that from if not from Tongo?


Some details form Mngeni's trial, the one without a plea bargain:

http://www.saflii.org/za/cases/ZAWCHC/2012/202.html
 
Suffolk Skeptic said:
Ok, I've had a little think. But all I can come up with is that his wife identified his belongings and found nothing missing.

Do you think there might have been a secret blueprint for nuclear weapons on him? That would be awesome.
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Do you suppose a wife is aware of every last Rand (or other valuables) a man might have?

I do like that nuke weapons analogy though; it reminds me of a time a lot of authorities from different political perspectives (and even countries) looked at a lot of info and thought someone was building or stockpiling that sort of thing.

It turned out they were wrong, their facts weren't very solid and the conclusion the squishy facts led to wasn't especially probable either. They were a lot better than what I've seen from this case where it ought to be lining up to a conclusion beyond the doubt of a reasonable person to render a guilty verdict.

Someone who inherently assumes a stuff-up by authorities is a 'conspiracy' is by definition not a reasonable person.
 
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Kaosium said:
Do you suppose a wife is aware of every last Rand (or other valuables) a man might have?

I do like that nuke weapons analogy though; it reminds me of a time a lot of authorities from different political perspectives (and even countries) looked at a lot of info and thought someone was building or stockpiling that sort of thing.

It turned out they were wrong, their facts weren't very solid and the conclusion the squishy facts led to wasn't especially probable either. They were a lot better than what I've seen from this case where it ought to be lining up to a conclusion beyond the doubt of a reasonable person to render a guilty verdict.

Someone who inherently assumes a stuff-up by authorities is a 'conspiracy' is by definition not a reasonable person.
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I don't know what you're talking about. Who isn't a reasonable person?
 
Suffolk Skeptic said:
I don't know what you're talking about. Who isn't a reasonable person?
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Someone who inherently assumes a stuff up by authorities requires a conspiracy, especially in a court case. We might as well pack it in for the trial system if we're gonna start with the assumption that if the police and prosecution are wrong it must be the result of a conspiracy.

Personally I suspect you were just trying to be funny, but I was pointing out that isn't a very good argument.
 
lonepinealex said:
Why didn't Mngeni take the plea bargain? Why did he plead not guilty? Anyone know?
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Maybe because he was terminally ill it made no difference whether he went away for 25 years like Qwabe or whatever it was he got. Maybe he was pissed that the hi-jack got turned into a murder by his hot head partner (the one with GSR on his gloves). Maybe he wasn't offered a deal.
 
#DewaniTrial Mopp hands in email from deceased to the accused. 1st, dated 5/11/2010

#DewaniTrial "I don't want an insecure man or whose feelings aren't real. I am ready to pack and leave. This is not a joke. I can't sleep"

#DewaniTrial "Because we had a Bollywood wedding doesn't mean we are Bollywood actors and should just pretend"
 
Kaosium said:
Someone who inherently assumes a stuff up by authorities requires a conspiracy, especially in a court case. We might as well pack it in for the trial system if we're gonna start with the assumption that if the police and prosecution are wrong it must be the result of a conspiracy.

Personally I suspect you were just trying to be funny, but I was pointing out that isn't a very good argument.
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You're the one who suggested a conspiracy with the police and the killers.
 
lonepinealex said:
The defence lawyer has stated today that he'd never been to SA before, and I seem to remember this having been established through passport checks.

ETA I'm guessing this story is to answer the question of why Dewani would think he could so easily organise a contract killing in SA. However it seems to me that if he had pulled something like this off before that he would already have contacts and wouldn't need to enlist the help of a hapless cabbie.
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Yeah, it's not only a dead end, it's a dumb dead end. Why would they claim an impression of something that could be proved not to be true, but if it was SD wouldn't have had to ask the first taxi driver he met. Makes one wonder if it was an idea planted by the police when they were mistaken in the assumption that SD had been to the country before, when he hadn't.
 
Suffolk Skeptic said:
A desperate attempt?

Or reporting something that Dewani actually said?

Monde told this story just 6 days after the murder, and he could hardly have known that in fact the father of one of Dewani's closest friends had been killed in an unusual carjacking by one bullet where the car and valuables were not taken. It could be that Dewani spun an adaptation of this murder to make himself seem a more credible "villain" to Tongo.
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The more important question would be to ask if the police knew about the previous killing at that stage.
 
It doesn't seem very likely Dewani would be nattering about old times to Tongo and if Tongo didn't get this nugget from him, then where could it have come from I wonder ...
 
Suffolk Skeptic said:
You're the one who suggested a conspiracy with the police and the killers.
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That's not what I was getting at, I suggested the police came up with a theory that Dewani was involved because of ambiguous indications (like paying off Tongo on camera) and 'confirmed' it with a variation of the Reid Technique if not possibly the application of brass knuckles and blow torches. One thing suggesting that is it wouldn't seem that the story they told would be convincing to police if they were properly skeptical in the corroborating process, the fact they bought it strikes me as an indication it came from police as opposed to them being gulled. Why they believed it when it doesn't add up very well is suggestive in my opinion.

Here's a law enforcement link on the subject of confessions, how to evaluate their reliability and the importance of corroboration in determining that.
 
Fly By Night Helicopters Ltd.

lane99 said:
...If Dewani's story about the helicopter ride was anything but the latest in his long series of cons, he would have told it to the police on the night. Which would have led, moments later, to Tongo the taxi driver being arrested and the case solved.

Instead, on the night, Dewani covered for Tongo and did everything he could to divert police attention from him.
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The investigating officer confirmed yesterday what everyone but Dewani Dupes had long since figured out for themselves: that Tongo would have immediately become the prime suspect if Dewani had reported that he had been robbed that evening of a large sum of money he had brought to pay for a service he had solicited Tongo to procure for him.

Dewani did not want the police to know about this money and he lied about its existence for years. Quite understandable if it was money earmarked to pay for a murder. Not quite as understandable if it had actually been for a "romantic helicopter trip".

<SNIP>

Edited by LashL: 
Edited to remove inappropriate content.
 
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