Shrien Dewani - Honeymoon murder

I wonder how and when those three came up with the idea of blaming Dewani, assuming he has nothing to do with his wife's killing.

Here it says with Monde it was only six days later:


In a statement to detectives just six days after Mrs Dewani's death, Mbolombo made his first reference to Bristol-based Dewani's murderous boasts.

"He [Tongo] also said he got the impression this man had been in South Africa before and also had done something like this before, as he mentioned that he wanted the murder to look like any hijacking. He said that the man had previously arranged for somebody to be killed in a 'fake hijacking in South Africa'," Mbolombo's statement read. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/shrien-dewani-trial-watch-moment-4605273

Do we know when Tongo and Qwabe first blamed Dewani?
 
Oliebol said:
I wonder how and when those three came up with the idea of blaming Dewani, assuming he has nothing to do with his wife's killing.

Here it says with Monde it was only six days later:


In a statement to detectives just six days after Mrs Dewani's death, Mbolombo made his first reference to Bristol-based Dewani's murderous boasts.

"He [Tongo] also said he got the impression this man had been in South Africa before and also had done something like this before, as he mentioned that he wanted the murder to look like any hijacking. He said that the man had previously arranged for somebody to be killed in a 'fake hijacking in South Africa'," Mbolombo's statement read. http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/shrien-dewani-trial-watch-moment-4605273

Do we know when Tongo and Qwabe first blamed Dewani?
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Is there any grain of truth in this? Had Dewani been to SA before? Was there any previous unnatural death linked to him?
 
catsmate1 said:
Is there any grain of truth in this? Had Dewani been to SA before? Was there any previous unnatural death linked to him?
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The defence lawyer has stated today that he'd never been to SA before, and I seem to remember this having been established through passport checks.

ETA I'm guessing this story is to answer the question of why Dewani would think he could so easily organise a contract killing in SA. However it seems to me that if he had pulled something like this off before that he would already have contacts and wouldn't need to enlist the help of a hapless cabbie.
 
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lonepinealex said:
The defence lawyer has stated today that he'd never been to SA before, and I seem to remember this having been established through passport checks.
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OK, desperate attempt to incriminate Dewani by Mbolombo then.
Thanks.
 
catsmate1 said:
OK, desperate attempt to incriminate Dewani by Mbolombo then.
Thanks.
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A desperate attempt?

Or reporting something that Dewani actually said?

Monde told this story just 6 days after the murder, and he could hardly have known that in fact the father of one of Dewani's closest friends had been killed in an unusual carjacking by one bullet where the car and valuables were not taken. It could be that Dewani spun an adaptation of this murder to make himself seem a more credible "villain" to Tongo.
 
catsmate1 said:
Is there any grain of truth in this? Had Dewani been to SA before? Was there any previous unnatural death linked to him?
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It was stated by his counsel in court today that he has never been in SA before. This must be true because it would be horrible own goal for it to turn out not to be.
 
Suffolk Skeptic said:
A desperate attempt?

Or reporting something that Dewani actually said?

Monde told this story just 6 days after the murder, and he could hardly have known that in fact the father of one of Dewani's closest friends had been killed in an unusual carjacking by one bullet where the car and valuables were not taken. It could be that Dewani spun an adaptation of this murder to make himself seem a more credible "villain" to Tongo.
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I don't know what happened, of course, but my hunch is (assuming Dewani had nothing to do with it) the police drove Monde and Tongo towards the cops' own theory, dangling a shorter sentence and a free pass before them to help them along, in much the same way that Amanda Knox was induced to 'confess' to the cops' own prior theory (a proposition I am willing to defend over there).
 
anglolawyer said:
I don't know what happened, of course, but my hunch is (assuming Dewani had nothing to do with it) the police drove Monde and Tongo towards the cops' own theory, dangling a shorter sentence and a free pass before them to help them along, in much the same way that Amanda Knox was induced to 'confess' to the cops' own prior theory (a proposition I am willing to defend over there).
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FWIW my theory is that the police made the connection between the previous killing and this one, maybe because the man's widow was one of the people who flew over to SA to comfort Dewani. It's possible they thought this connection couldn't be a coincidence and pressed the hijackers to support this.

Just my speculation obv but I can see how the cops might have thought, "aha!" when the widow showed up, with visions of solving two high profile murders for the price of one, pinning them on a foreigner to boot. Getting the hijackers to go along with it would be trivially easy, although getting their stories straight seems not to be.
 
Suffolk Skeptic said:
A desperate attempt?

Or reporting something that Dewani actually said?

Monde told this story just 6 days after the murder, and he could hardly have known that in fact the father of one of Dewani's closest friends had been killed in an unusual carjacking by one bullet where the car and valuables were not taken. It could be that Dewani spun an adaptation of this murder to make himself seem a more credible "villain" to Tongo.
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That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. If Dewani claimed to have organised a murder in SA previously, why was he dealing with such a bunch of amateurs this time? Didn't Mbolombo notice this problem?
 
lonepinealex said:
FWIW my theory is that the police made the connection between the previous killing and this one, maybe because the man's widow was one of the people who flew over to SA to comfort Dewani. It's possible they thought this connection couldn't be a coincidence and pressed the hijackers to support this.

Just my speculation obv but I can see how the cops might have thought, "aha!" when the widow showed up, with visions of solving two high profile murders for the price of one, pinning them on a foreigner to boot. Getting the hijackers to go along with it would be trivially easy, although getting their stories straight seems not to be.
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The widow? LOL. What's this all about?
 
anglolawyer said:
The widow? LOL. What's this all about?
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Just something I read in the paper. Apparently the widow of the doctor who was murdered in SA in 2007 flew out to comfort Dewani only a couple of days after Anni was found. Sort of thing that could make the cops think, "bingo", since they haven't managed to find the doctor's killer, despite a large reward. This is all assuming the news reports are accurate, so...
 
lonepinealex said:
Just something I read in the paper. Apparently the widow of the doctor who was murdered in SA in 2007 flew out to comfort Dewani only a couple of days after Anni was found. Sort of thing that could make the cops think, "bingo", since they haven't managed to find the doctor's killer, despite a large reward. This is all assuming the news reports are accurate, so...
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Oliebol said:
Just a coincidence, another one.
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Gee, thanks. Didn't know that. Small world.
 
Suffolk Skeptic said:
A desperate attempt?

Or reporting something that Dewani actually said?

Monde told this story just 6 days after the murder, and he could hardly have known that in fact the father of one of Dewani's closest friends had been killed in an unusual carjacking by one bullet where the car and valuables were not taken. It could be that Dewani spun an adaptation of this murder to make himself seem a more credible "villain" to Tongo.
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Last I heard they had the internet in South Africa. At any rate I'm sure the police do and that sort of information, perhaps along with the video of Dewani paying off Tongo, may have been what caused them to be suspicious initially. Police may have gotten these guys in the interrogation room and just got them to 'confess' to what they already knew. Isn't this the case where there were claims of brass knuckles and blow torches in the interrogation room?

So lets say cops come across that info and having these guys dead to rights decide to 'confirm' their suspicions and use a little Reid Technique or some variation thereof, which often involves minimizing guilt to get the subject to confess to peripheral or lesser involvement and cast the 'real' blame elsewhere. So in the interrogation they tell them something akin to 'we know Dewani was involved, did he ever tell you about the guy he had killed before? And the perp, seeing a way out says something like 'yeah!' and makes up a story, which doesn't quite match because he's generating it up to save him from further administrations of brass knuckles, blow torches or just more interrogation.
 
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This is interesting. From August 2012. Monde on the witness stand:

"Along the way, I asked him why he was looking for a hitman ... He mentioned to me that there is a lady who needs to be killed. But he's not sure because there's two ladies and he's not sure which one to kill," the witness said. http://mg.co.za/article/2012-08-16-middleman-involved-in-dewani-killing

Sounds like Tongo was telling the truth when he said he didn't know it was the wife who had to be killed. Or why would Monde make that up?
 
Oliebol said:
This is interesting. From August 2012. Monde on the witness stand:

"Along the way, I asked him why he was looking for a hitman ... He mentioned to me that there is a lady who needs to be killed. But he's not sure because there's two ladies and he's not sure which one to kill," the witness said. http://mg.co.za/article/2012-08-16-middleman-involved-in-dewani-killing

Sounds like Tongo was telling the truth when he said he didn't know it was the wife who had to be killed. Or why would Monde make that up?
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Why would Monde testify differently last week when he said that Tongo had said it was the wife and made no mention of another woman?
 
Kaosium said:
Last I heard they had the internet in South Africa. At any rate I'm sure the police do and that sort of information, perhaps along with the video of Dewani paying off Tongo, may have been what caused them to be suspicious initially. Police may have gotten these guys in the interrogation room and just got them to 'confess' to what they already knew. Isn't this the case where there were claims of brass knuckles and blow torches in the interrogation room?

So lets say cops come across that info and having these guys dead to rights decide to 'confirm' their suspicions and use a little Reid Technique or some variation thereof, which often involves minimizing guilt to get the subject to confess to peripheral or lesser involvement and cast the 'real' blame elsewhere. So in the interrogation they tell them something akin to 'we know Dewani was involved, did he ever tell you about the guy he had killed before? And the perp, seeing a way out says something like 'yeah!' and makes up a story, which doesn't quite match because he's generating it up to save him from further administrations of brass knuckles, blow torches or just more interrogation.
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Yes, that must be right. How silly of me not to see the complicated intricate conspiracy involving layers of police, criminals and their lawyers. Perhaps, as you say, one of the protagonists in their little drama was typing on the internet and miraculously came across another hijacking which had a link to Dewani so thought aha! Let's get him for another unsolved murder as well!
 
Suffolk Skeptic said:
Yes, that must be right. How silly of me not to see the complicated intricate conspiracy involving layers of police, criminals and their lawyers. Perhaps, as you say, one of the protagonists in their little drama was typing on the internet and miraculously came across another hijacking which had a link to Dewani so thought aha! Let's get him for another unsolved murder as well!
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Never ascribe to conspiracy that which can be explained by sheer incompetence.
 
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