Shrien Dewani - Honeymoon murder

On the other hand I'd worry a lot more if everybody who was tried was convicted. Wouldn't you? I don't know what the right percentage is.

Rolfe.
 
Rolfe said:
On the other hand I'd worry a lot more if everybody who was tried was convicted. Wouldn't you? I don't know what the right percentage is.

Rolfe.
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The CPS has to apply a merits test and a public interest test to their decision to prosecute. The merits test is satisfied if they think the chances of winning are better than 50%. In 28% of the cases they were wrong as to 20%. So their judgment is poor, among the many things wrong with this blighted organisation. Sure, it would be worrying if they had 100% success rate but they should get much closer to that than they do IMO.

On this thread, my point is to answer Suffolk's conspiracy thing - prosecutors are often wrong. It doesn't mean there has to be a conspiracy.
 
anglolawyer said:
The CPS has to apply a merits test and a public interest test to their decision to prosecute. The merits test is satisfied if they think the chances of winning are better than 50%. In 28% of the cases they were wrong as to 20%. So their judgment is poor, among the many things wrong with this blighted organisation. Sure, it would be worrying if they had 100% success rate but they should get much closer to that than they do IMO.

On this thread, my point is to answer Suffolk's conspiracy thing - prosecutors are often wrong. It doesn't mean there has to be a conspiracy.
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It's not my conspiracy thing. I don't think there is a conspiracy.

It's your conspiracy thing. Although maybe not now, you're not sure anymore :)
 
Suffolk Skeptic said:
It's not my conspiracy thing. I don't think there is a conspiracy.

It's your conspiracy thing. Although maybe not now, you're not sure anymore :)
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There's definitely a conspiracy in this case, either it was between the hotel clerk, taxi driver and gunmen to rob a rich couple and she was killed, or it was Dewani hiring them to execute her (and include himself!!!) in such a spontaneous and preposterous manner.

From what I've seen, the cops behavior is more easily explained by incompetence or corruption, not a 'conspiracy.' After all, there's nothing secret about how stupid they've been, unless they've damning evidence of their conspiracy theory they've not yet released. What has been released so far contradicts the scenario they constructed and looks a great deal like a bunch of incompetent clods getting gulled by a perp caught dead to rights or (more probably) a perp going along with a theory the cops interrogated him until he confessed to, probably not all that difficult considering the circumstances he faced.

Doesn't it bother you that the SA police ignored the fact that Tonga's 'corroborating' evidence of being called in an agitated state by Dewani demanding it be done that night was in fact revealed to be a calm Dewani in the presence of the victim? That the other texts that supposedly would corroborate Tonga's story don't exist? That the assertion that Dewani said he'd arranged previous murders in South Africa was shown to be not possible by the fact he'd not been there and improbable (that he said it) considering he'd have had to agree to this ludicrous scenario where this rich guy is left out the streets begging for help and in a position where he'd have to answer questions from police as opposed to being safely away at a conference or social gathering where he'd have an ironclad alibi? Who would arrange a contract kill so stupidly and inconvenient to them?

Let me put it this way: obviously the hotel clerk, taxi driver and gunmen were in cahoots together, either to rob tourists or murder them. Now, what do you suppose is a more probable 'ring' to pre-exist: one between hotel clerks and taxi drivers to relieve rich tourists of their belongings, or one to murder them on the drop of a hat for paltry sums?

I will make a prediction based on this presumption: there's no better evidence than we've heard that doesn't amount to jailbirds given a way out (or an easier time of it) by blaming Dewani for what they've done. That prediction is that some people in this thread who assume Dewani guilty presume the cops have better evidence than what has been made public. They will find out during the trial that better evidence doesn't exist. Some of them will go from being 'firm guilters' to questioning the prosecution; others will make any and every excuse for the SA authorities because to admit differently will be to allow that they were easily fooled and if a miscarriage of justice occurs they will crow happily and if justice is done and Dewani released they will blame 'reasonable doubt' or a 'PR campaign' or clever but dishonest defense attorneys; possibly--if not probably--all of the above, anything but admit their error.

Just like the SA authorities.
 
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Charlie Wilkes said:
He's as good as convicted.

Now he's going to have to hope for a rag-tag bunch of supporters to pry his ass out post-conviction, like Lindy Chamberlain and Amanda Knox.
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The evidence against Chamberlain was pathetic, and relied on people not believing a dingo would attack a human. Dingoes kill people. The forensic evidence was a joke.
 
a_unique_person said:
The evidence against Chamberlain was pathetic, and relied on people not believing a dingo would attack a human. Dingoes kill people. The forensic evidence was a joke.
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They did take a lot of false positives and a botched experimental test on fetal blood into court though, they didn't say it was a joke.

The joke was when they tried to put it together into a scenario with the scissors (that weren't at the scene) and had her 'distracting' everyone with screams but surreptitiously sneaking to the car and butchering the child. Then everyone gathering around the car but not noticing the mess or smell and them stuffing the body into the bag but forgetting it and having to go back for it (!).

That's the sort of thing you get when you go back some eighteen months later and test everything you can with presumptive tests and take them as absolute positives. Also, some of the positives (probably) were blood, just not from the death of the child.

The Lindy Chamberlain case is an excellent example of how to abuse blood testing results but make them sound very damning.
 
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Suffolk Skeptic said:
five times a night!

Here is some good evidence for Dewani. The South African police have cracked the phone of Anni and found that they were at it like rabbits!
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We'll, well, well, well, well. There goes motive. What a pity, never mind. Where's lane99? I get to gloat :D

ETA funny that this story had to await the hacking of her phone to cone out. The cousin could easily have told the police about it couldn't she? I've heard a lot about her family just wanting him to be out on trial 'so they can find put what happened'. Sure. That information should have been passed to the police long ago.
 
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anglolawyer said:
We'll, well, well, well, well. There goes motive. What a pity, never mind. Where's lane99? I get to gloat :D

ETA funny that this story had to await the hacking of her phone to cone out. The cousin could easily have told the police about it couldn't she? I've heard a lot about her family just wanting him to be out on trial 'so they can find put what happened'. Sure. That information should have been passed to the police long ago.
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It does seem very odd, because as well as disclosing the texts from Anni about how unhappy she was the cousin did also disclose one on the day of the murder from Anni saying that things were much better now and she would explain when she got home and she hated the word divorce. So we knew about at one. Why not this latest one?
 
Information Analyst said:
You seemed incredulous that police - any police - can be so idiotic, when in fact there are lots of example in lots of countries.
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Exactly.

Information Analyst said:
I think the police - for whatever reason - decided that Dewani was involved, and then tried to retrofit whatever evidence they could to fit that theory, whilst ignoring anything that contradicted it.
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On this particular I case I have, as I stated, no opinion. However I do accept that miscarriages if justice occur, due to incompetence, 'gilding the lily', outright fabrication or desperation to solve a case in the face of public opinion.
 
anglolawyer said:
Is there a connection between these two sentences ... ?
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There's some nice pictures in the Mail article Suffolk posted, take a close look at the one of the cousin.

Perhaps there might be a thirst for vengeance amongst certain parties...or weregild. I can think of other reasons 'justice campaign' binders might be constructed and printed up, just not that many....

The hell with this nancy-boy court crap with all that annoying evidence and irritating formal procedures, let's bring back trial by combat!

(:p)
 
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What's "it"?

Suffolk Skeptic said:
..The South African police have cracked the phone of Anni and found that they were at it like rabbits
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The report has the whiff of a Max Clifford-ism. Who rather specialized in fabricating stories of prodigious feats of heterosexuality for clients who, in reality, were closeted homosexuals.

I am very dubious there is any text which definitively states they had, successfully, consummated their marriage at all, let alone multiple times a night.
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anglolawyer said:
Is there a connection between these two sentences ... ?
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Yes, Kaosium understood the connection. A text message in the possession of the family which supports the husband may have not have been revealed if the family believes the husband is guilty. Don't be mean to me, mister. :p


ETA: Per Suffolk Skeptic's post, the police did not have the "sent" version until recently. Therefore, only the recipient (the cousin) had the text.
 
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lane99 said:
The report has the whiff of a Max Clifford-ism. Who rather specialized in fabricating stories of prodigious feats of heterosexuality for clients who, in reality, were closeted homosexuals.

I am very dubious there is any text which definitively states they had, successfully, consummated their marriage at all, let alone multiple times a night.
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That's my feeling as well. Very suspicious given earlier reports about his use of a male prostitute.
 
lane99 said:
The report has the whiff of a Max Clifford-ism. Who rather specialized in fabricating stories of prodigious feats of heterosexuality for clients who, in reality, were closeted homosexuals.

I am very dubious there is any text which definitively states they had, successfully, consummated their marriage at all, let alone multiple times a night.
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I don't think the "it" can be anything other than sex though. It would tie in with the other text saying things were better. Maybe they had one night of passion before he bumped her off, but 5 times does seem a tad too enthusiastic from a man who wouldn't normally be able to perform with a woman and who was planning her murder.

The FB page has pointed out that as the cousins communicated in Swedish rather than English, the translation might be faulty, which seems quite possible.
 
lane99 said:
The report has the whiff of a Max Clifford-ism. Who rather specialized in fabricating stories of prodigious feats of heterosexuality for clients who, in reality, were closeted homosexuals.

I am very dubious there is any text which definitively states they had, successfully, consummated their marriage at all, let alone multiple times a night.
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:D This seems a pretty silly observation. The cousin could easily refute this lie if Max Clifford had made it up but, this is what happens, I suppose, when one becomes over-invested in a particular position.

It would be nice to hear what the source is supposed to be. As far as I can see it's another newspaper, The Sunday Mirror. The Mail article is full of references about the content of texts twixt Anni and her cousin. Only the cousin can be the source of these. The SA cops ought long since to have sequestered her phone and discovered the five times a day text but apparently they haven't. The whole thing is bizarre. Whatever the truth turns out to be I cannot see in what respect Shrien derives an advantage from his PR people putting out stupid lies that blow up in his face at trial. Lane99 understands these things better then me. Maybe s/he can explain the thinking ...
 
Ampulla of Vater said:
Yes, Kaosium understood the connection. A text message in the possession of the family which supports the husband may have not have been revealed if the family believes the husband is guilty. Don't be mean to me, mister. :p


ETA: Per Suffolk Skeptic's post, the police did not have the "sent" version until recently. Therefore, only the recipient (the cousin) had the text.
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I have my beady eye on you ... :D

I am very puzzled at the apparent fact (assuming there is something in this story) the cops have not commandeered the cousins's phone. Are they really that stupid? Or has she refused to hand it over? We've been favoured with all the stories about their marital problems and Anni's father told the BBC that 'things didn't sound right' the last time he spoke with her etc etc (clear proof of murder to some - lol) so how come we haven't heard about this?
 
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