Showdown in Washington, D.C.

[Biscuit]

How is CBS's shaky record for reliable news irrelevant? Did you forget that Katie Couric is their news anchor? What message was CBS sending when they hired airphotoslive.com to get a quick estimate of crows size at Beck's rally, but not Sharpoton's rally? How do we know what time of day airphotoslive took their pictures?

You don't have a problem that SkyNews and Montanaro came up with a different number than CBS, do you?

"Around 500,000 American conservatives have held a controversial rally at the place where Martin Luther King made his famous "I Have A Dream" speech". Rob Cole, Sky News Online

NBC News's Domenico Montanaro Tweeted that it might have been 325,000


BTW: Curt Westergard, owner of airphotoslive, Twitter buddies include Moore, Gore & Huffington.

1. Please give me your estimation of how often CBS is wrong. Is is 10% of the time? is it 90% of the time? If you are going to discount every source because it has made mistakes in the past then you can't get your news from anywhere.

2. Does Katie work for the company that took the photos? Did Katie do the estimates?

3. That Beck's rally was a much bigger story

4. The photos were taken throughout the day. The ones that were analyzed by outside experts were the ones that showed the most people and occurred around noon.

5. How did sky news and Montero reach their estimates?

6. Twitter buddies? grow up.

 

[Accidental Martyr]

1. Please give me your estimation of how often CBS is wrong. Is is 10% of the time? is it 90% of the time? If you are going to discount every source because it has made mistakes in the past then you can't get your news from anywhere.

Come on, you know Fox News is never wrong.

 

[Biscuit]

Brining out nearly 100K is no small feat. I am surprised it was that many. That it was peaceful and calm is even better. Congrats to glenn beck and his future book sales. In 50 years we will still honor MLK day we will never celebrate glenn beck as a nation.

I don't trust anyone who claims divine intervention in their lives. Like W. Burroughs said,

If you're doing business with a religious S.O.B.,
Get it in writing.
His word isn't worth $@#*.
Not with the good lord telling him how to F you you on the deal.

that quote has been edited for civility.

 

[Biscuit]

Come on, you know Fox News is never wrong.

except when they are

http://mediamatters.org/columns/200910270002

But at least there is no damn Katie Couric!

 

[Cicero]

1. Please give me your estimation of how often CBS is wrong. Is is 10% of the time? is it 90% of the time? If you are going to discount every source because it has made mistakes in the past then you can't get your news from anywhere.

Discount? No. Be skeptical of? yes.

2. Does Katie work for the company that took the photos? Did Katie do the estimates?

As long as Couric had nothing to do with the counting, there was no politics involved in the counting? Really?

"Now the fun begins in the blogosphere. NBC News, the New York Times, and other large media outlets that didn’t attempt a scientific estimate uncritically accepted Beck’s claim of “300,000 to 500,000″. (At least Rep. Michelle Bachmann’s laughable claim of 1 million isn’t being treated seriously.)

The CBS News estimate immediately was vilified by conservative bloggers, and often rabidly-virulent comments from readers are being posted on news stories that mention the CBS estimate. I won’t post more links, but you can find plenty by Googling “beck rally attendance” and similar search terms." Steve Doig, one of the two estimators hired by Curt Westergard, owner of airphotoslive.

3. That Beck's rally was a much bigger story

Why is that?

4. The photos were taken throughout the day. The ones that were analyzed by outside experts were the ones that showed the most people and occurred around noon.

Outside "expert" see above

5. How did sky news and Montero reach their estimates?

Possibly looking at aerial photos and coming up with a different number?

6. Twitter buddies? grow up.

I agree. Anyone using Twitter should grow up.

 

[Cicero]

Just to be clear, are you a supporter of Beck?
Do you really think that Teddy Roosevelt was a Socialist?
Do you really buy into Beck's Conspiracy Theories?
I ask because you seem unwilling to ever admit that, just maybe, the right has it's share of crazies.

Are you cereal? T.R. is my favorite conservative and POTUS. Of course there are filberts on the political right. But as far as this particular rally, what did Beck say that was loopy and or crossed the line of decorum?

 

[Spindrift]

Discount? No. Be skeptical of? yes.

As long as Couric had nothing to do with the counting, there was no politics involved in the counting? Really?

"Now the fun begins in the blogosphere. NBC News, the New York Times, and other large media outlets that didn’t attempt a scientific estimate uncritically accepted Beck’s claim of “300,000 to 500,000″. (At least Rep. Michelle Bachmann’s laughable claim of 1 million isn’t being treated seriously.)

The CBS News estimate immediately was vilified by conservative bloggers, and often rabidly-virulent comments from readers are being posted on news stories that mention the CBS estimate. I won’t post more links, but you can find plenty by Googling “beck rally attendance” and similar search terms." Steve Doig, one of the two estimators hired by Curt Westergard, owner of airphotoslive.

You think Katie Couric is going to do the actual counting?

Why is that?

Because Beck and Fox News had been pumping it for weeks. Sharpton's rally was simply a reaction to Beck's rally and rarely is that the bigger story.

Possibly looking at aerial photos and coming up with a different number?

Possibly? As in you have no idea and they aren't saying? Did they do that? Have they stated clearly how they got their numbers like CBS did?

 

[elbe]

Be skeptical of? yes.

Speaking of being skeptical, I'm far more likely to accept an estimate that explains how they reached their estimate than one where they don't. At least until something better comes along. I don't just discount a piece of information because it came from a source I disagree with politically.

 

[dudalb]

Are you cereal? T.R. is my favorite conservative and POTUS. Of course there are filberts on the political right. But as far as this particular rally, what did Beck say that was loopy and or crossed the line of decorum?

Yes, I am very serious about Beck thinking that TR was a socialist. I suggest you google the topic and find out what Beck said on the topic.
And nice dodge with the "at this particular rally" bit. Beck knows better then to peddle his more loony positions in a venue like that. Oldest trick in the book.
It appears to me as if you don't really know much about Beck but support him because he is Anti Obama. If you adapt a "anybody who does not like Obama is an ally" approach you are going to be buddying up with a lot of kooks.
As for line of Decorum, his clear implication that America is in a mess because it Turned Away From God is an obvious slap on those who are not religious believers.

 

[elbe]

Yes, I am very serious about Beck thinking that TR was a socialist.

I've watched an unfortunate amount of Beck and he seems to think a lot of people are socialists for, as far as I can tell, no apparent reason - other than, I guess, he dislikes them.

 

[dudalb]

Here is David Frum, hardly a liberal, on Beck's attack on Theodore Roosevelt:

http://www.frumforum.com/glenn-becks-small-tent-gop

 

[Biscuit]

Discount? No. Be skeptical of? yes.

So you are equally skeptical of the larger number being reported, right?

As long as Couric had nothing to do with the counting, there was no politics involved in the counting? Really?

"Now the fun begins in the blogosphere. NBC News, the New York Times, and other large media outlets that didn’t attempt a scientific estimate uncritically accepted Beck’s claim of “300,000 to 500,000″. (At least Rep. Michelle Bachmann’s laughable claim of 1 million isn’t being treated seriously.)

The CBS News estimate immediately was vilified by conservative bloggers, and often rabidly-virulent comments from readers are being posted on news stories that mention the CBS estimate. I won’t post more links, but you can find plenty by Googling “beck rally attendance” and similar search terms." Steve Doig, one of the two estimators hired by Curt Westergard, owner of airphotoslive.

Can you prove that there was a conspiracy by CBS news, Katie Couric, the photography company, and the experts in crowd estimation to mislead the public? Or is far more likely that everyone wants to believe that they have the most supporters? Is the size of the event the purpose of the event? 100K is a lot of people! Even if it was over 1 million its still a fraction of the population. That 100K people went to go listen to a Mormon that believes an invisible sky being is intervening in his life is outstanding!

Why is that?

Because Beck's event was more controversial? Because Beck spent the last several months hyping it nightly from his TV and radio shows? Because FOX news said so? I don't know why people care about Beck. He can take a long walk off a short pier for all I care.

Outside "expert" see above

People who make it their job to estimate crowd sizes based on aerial photography should not be trusted to estimate crowd sizes based on aerial photography. We should insinuate a conspiracy to rob beck of several hundred thousand supporters based on a dislike of Katie Couric for perceived slights towards our political beliefs.

Possibly looking at aerial photos and coming up with a different number?

Possibly!? Well did they? Possibly they read the wrinkles on a armadillos butt!

I agree. Anyone using Twitter should grow up.

On this I agree completely. So lets not use twitter associates to insinuate malfeasance.

 

[Ladewig]

Possibly looking at aerial photos and coming up with a different number?

Even though there is zero evidence in favor of this theory, I am willing to accept it for the time being. Now please explain how the estimates of 1,000,000 and 2,000,000 were generated.

 

[Cicero]

You think Katie Couric is going to do the actual counting?

I clearly stated that it was Steve Doig, one of the two estimators hired by Curt Westergard, owner of airphotoslive, whose counting seems to be influenced by his politics. I doubt Couric could handle any number that forced her to go beyond her fingers and taking her shoes off to count her toes.

 

[Cicero]

It appears to me as if you don't really know much about Beck but support him because he is Anti Obama.

Where did I register my support for Beck, or while we are at it, Limberger? Questioning CBS and their "experts" on their rally count is tantamount to unyielding support for Beck? Really?

 

[elbe]

I clearly stated that it was Steve Doig, one of the two estimators hired by Curt Westergard, owner of airphotoslive, whose counting seems to be influenced by his politics.

I looked at your quote with the Doig quote and that's not a very good example of politics influencing his counting, just an observation of the aftermath of the counting. Do you have something better to prove that claim?

 

[Biscuit]

I clearly stated that it was Steve Doig, one of the two estimators hired by Curt Westergard, owner of airphotoslive, whose counting seems to be influenced by his politics.

Based on his twitter associates. Open and shut case here boys!

 

[Cicero]

Based on his twitter associates. Open and shut case here boys!

What? You have a difficult time following along. Curt Westergard, owner of airphotoslive, has Twitter buddies that include Moore, Gore & Huffington.

Steve Doig, one of the two estimators hired by Curt Westergard, makes his politics clear in his own rant about Michelle Bachmann, conservative bloggers, and the 300,000 to 500,000 estimates
.

 

[dudalb]

What? You have a difficult time following along. Curt Westergard, owner of airphotoslive, has Twitter buddies that include Moore, Gore & Huffington.

Steve Doig, one of the two estimators hired by Curt Westergard, makes his politics clear in his own rant about Michelle Bachmann, conservative bloggers, and the 300,000 to 500,000 estimates
.

God, this reminds me of the "Dieboldt helped to fix the 2004 election" conspiracy theories, except it was lefties who were pushing the CT them.

I am amazed some people can see at all, considering the size of the Political Blinders they wear.
And I love the way he claims not to be a Beck supporter, but seems to be obssesed by pushing upwards the number attending the Rally.
Cicero, frankly, is not a very good at arguing for his side.

 

[Dani]

This is an excuse for me to bring this thread that went unnoticed for most people.

I've come to the conclusion that most reports of demonstrations show massively inflated figures. It's become a tradition for some time now, and whenever people witness a successful demonstration, they say "wow, plenty of people, there must be around 1.000.000 people". No, you don't have a clue, you're just misguided by the media wars.