Should sanctuary cities be tolerated?

acbytesla said:
They don't. They usually pay FICA and income taxes. And frequently do not receive Social Security, Unemployment or other benefits. The idea that illegal immigrants are a drain on the budget or economy is not just laughably dishonest, it is sad. They commit fewer crimes than native or legal immigrants. They must remain under the radar and are frequently preyed upon.
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acbytesla said:
Thanks. This is what so many Americans don't get. Most illegal immigrants are taken advantage of. They are either submitting phony SS numbers and paying into the system without any ability to receive from it. Or they're working under the table often at below minimum wages.
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My wife's ex-husband was here illegally back in the 80s. (He's a citizen now.) So I've been able to get some insight into how things are (were?) done.

When he was working illegally, he paid income taxes. I don't know if this is how most of them do it, but I know it's very common.
Even if they were not, at the wages they usually make at their under the table jobs, they would likely have had all of their withholding refunded at tax time anyway.

The tax dodgers are not the immigrants, but rather the employers who do not pay the payroll taxes. It's the same motivation for hiring US citizens under the table. the employee gets a bit more take home pay (because it's tax free) and it costs the employer less because they don't have to pay payroll taxes. (I've known a lot of US citizens who have worked under the table as well. It's not exactly rare.)
 
TomB said:
My wife's ex-husband was here illegally back in the 80s. (He's a citizen now.) So I've been able to get some insight into how things are (were?) done.

When he was working illegally, he paid income taxes. I don't know if this is how most of them do it, but I know it's very common.
Even if they were not, at the wages they usually make at their under the table jobs, they would likely have had all of their withholding refunded at tax time anyway.

The tax dodgers are not the immigrants, but rather the employers who do not pay the payroll taxes. It's the same motivation for hiring US citizens under the table. the employee gets a bit more take home pay (because it's tax free) and it costs the employer less because they don't have to pay payroll taxes. (I've known a lot of US citizens who have worked under the table as well. It's not exactly rare.)
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And if those employers get caught, they'll be fine as all the witnesses against them can be deported on their way to court.
 
TomB said:
My wife's ex-husband was here illegally back in the 80s. (He's a citizen now.) So I've been able to get some insight into how things are (were?) done.

When he was working illegally, he paid income taxes. I don't know if this is how most of them do it, but I know it's very common.
Even if they were not, at the wages they usually make at their under the table jobs, they would likely have had all of their withholding refunded at tax time anyway.

The tax dodgers are not the immigrants, but rather the employers who do not pay the payroll taxes. It's the same motivation for hiring US citizens under the table. the employee gets a bit more take home pay (because it's tax free) and it costs the employer less because they don't have to pay payroll taxes. (I've known a lot of US citizens who have worked under the table as well. It's not exactly rare.)
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Thanks for the info on payroll taxes.

Presumably illegal immigrants also pay other taxes like sales tax, consumption taxes, property taxes and so on.
 
Hercules56 said:
There is a ton of evidence and research to show that they are in fact a drain on State and local resources.
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reminder that, like much of this thread and your views on immigration in general, have yet to back up your claims with any evidence. and when you’ve requested evidence it’s been provided.
 
dirtywick said:
reminder that, like much of this thread and your views on immigration in general, have yet to back up your claims with any evidence. and when you’ve requested evidence it’s been provided.
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They indeed cost more than they give.

Economic impact of illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org


"State and local governments incur costs for providing services to unauthorized immigrants and have limited options for avoiding or minimizing those costs";
"The amount that state and local governments spend on services for unauthorized immigrants represents a small percentage of the total amount spent by those governments to provide such services to residents in their jurisdictions";
"The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to those immigrants"; and
"Federal aid programs offer resources to state and local governments that provide services to unauthorized immigrants, but those funds do not fully cover the costs incurred by those governments."
 
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This section needs to be updated. The reason given is: A 2007 review is unacceptable.. Please help update this article to reflect recent events or newly available information. (January 2025)
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The section of the Wiki article quoted.
 
Hercules56 said:
They indeed cost more than they give.

Economic impact of illegal immigration to the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org


"State and local governments incur costs for providing services to unauthorized immigrants and have limited options for avoiding or minimizing those costs";
"The amount that state and local governments spend on services for unauthorized immigrants represents a small percentage of the total amount spent by those governments to provide such services to residents in their jurisdictions";
"The tax revenues that unauthorized immigrants generate for state and local governments do not offset the total cost of services provided to those immigrants"; and
"Federal aid programs offer resources to state and local governments that provide services to unauthorized immigrants, but those funds do not fully cover the costs incurred by those governments."
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Did you actually read the link you provided?

A 2007 review of the academic literature by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) found that "over the past two decades, most efforts to estimate the fiscal impact of immigration in the United States have concluded that, in aggregate and over the long term, tax revenues of all types generated by immigrants—both legal and unauthorized— exceed the cost of the services they use."While the overall fiscal impact on the U.S. is beneficial, unauthorized immigrants have an adverse impact on the budgets of state and local governments.
 
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Well this thread has convinced me, america needs to deport our poor like everyone on medicaid. People who take more than they give to the state are the enemy of the state and need to be treated as such. I look forward to the nursing homes planting their vegetables in ditches.
 
acbytesla said:
It amounts to trust us. Well, I don't. Nor should we. Trump should have gone to prison years ago. But he could afford 4 years of due process and then avoided accountability all together. ICE is conducting mass raids and conducting mass deportation without both probable cause or a single court hearing.

I guess if you're white and wealthy, due process is extended to you. If you speak with an accent or have slightly darker skin, you're SOL.
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For now.
 
ponderingturtle said:
Well this thread has convinced me, america needs to deport our poor like everyone on medicaid. People who take more than they give to the state are the enemy of the state and need to be treated as such. I look forward to the nursing homes planting their vegetables in ditches.
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Pathetic, dishonest hysterical strawman.
 
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