Should G W Bush be impeached

[Renfield]

No, we don't know that Bush lied. At best, he made a mistake. There is still the possibility that WMD's are still there or were smuggled out of the country.

Bush presented the existance of Iraqi WMD's and nuclear program as a fact, when the intelligence was clearly not that strong.

This I would argue, is indeed a lie.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

...I don't think Bush was incompetent and I do think he should be running our contry...

The population of the US is nearly 300 million, including many of the best educated, most talented, most resourceful, humane people on earth. By almost any measure of civilised attainment, from Nobel prize-counts on down, the US leads the world by miles. You would think that a country with such resources, and such a field of talent, would be able to elect a leader of the highest quality. Yet, what has happened? At the end of all the primaries and party caucuses, the speeches and the televised debates, after a year or more of non-stop electioneering bustle, who, out of that entire population of 300 million, emerges at the top of the heap? George Bush.

http://www.valleyskeptic.com/bush_dawkins.html

 

[kimiko]

...those "religious-illiterates" are America. If you hate them, you hate this country -- demographically, there's just no way around that. Those guys are everywhere. In every income bracket, in every education bracket, across ethnic lines, across professions, everywhere. Now you might disagree with them -- I certainly do --. But you basically have two choices. You can learn to talk to them and understand where they're coming from and engage them as equals. Or you can be called, accurately, an America-hater.

http://www.gallup.com/poll/content/?ci=17041

About 8 in 10 Americans adhere to some form of Christianity.

So would you say a country or organization having 80% of some quality is enough to make the group and the quality virtually synonymous?

 

[Mark]

You know, I've been hearing that now for the last . . . five years or so. I just don't get it. But, I'm willing to put it aside because, well, because it doesn't matter. The end result is the same. You mention Reagan as a figurehead with Bush (the elder) running him. But Bush the elder, during his presidency, didn't hold a candle to Reagan. Nothing stuck to Reagan and everything stuck to Bush. I don't buy it. I didn't buy that he was dumb either. I did buy that Bush (the elder) was dumb, even though he appeared not to be. He fell for more dem/media traps continuously. By the end of his four years I was HOPING for a Clinton.

Same with Bush. Seems to me he's really not as smart as those around him but, by golly, he knows how to surround himself with really smart people. Rove and Chaney are just two of the very many. That counts too. But, from what I've heard, Bush is no dummy either.

But, 'misunderestimate' him all you wish. It doesn't change the equation one iota.

Rove and Cheney are smart, I'll give you that (although I rather doubt Bush picked them himself), but they are also despicable.

 

[thaiboxerken]

The pretenses under which he kicked ass were 'resolved' by the congress. To say he lied is to say they lied, which is fine if that's what trips your trigger, but it does nothing for the impeachment process. 296 house members and 76 senators are not going to vote on their own impeachment.

I don't agree that those who believe the lie are liars themselves.

 

[Rob Lister]

I don't agree that those who believe the lie are liars themselves.

Wow. Bush must have been pretty smart to fool the vast majority of both houses of congress, since, as you suggest, he himself was not fooled.

 

[Ladewig]

Rove and Cheney are smart, I'll give you that (although I rather doubt Bush picked them himself), but they are also despicable.

Bush approached Cheney and said that he was making a list of people to consider for vice-president. Cheney volunteered to head up the selection committee and came back several months later with the conclusion that none of the men on the list were as qualified as he was. So you are right in doubting that Bush picked Cheney - because Cheney picked himself.

 

[fishbob]

All of your facts and allegations -- all of them -- were fully laid out to the voters of the United States last year. They were given an opportunity to send the President packing with no muss and no fuss. They decided what weight to give to the intelligence failures and they concluded that a) Bush was not in fact lying and/or b) Bush was lying but he deserves to be in office nonetheless.

Back up a minute here. What was fully laid out to the voters last year was confusion, misinformation, innuendo, 1/4 truths, 1/2 truths, 0.87 truths, spin, waffles, illogic, and distraction. The voters were given an opportunity to vote for the lesser of two evils with no clear idea which evil was lesser. The conclusions reached by the voters, whichever way they voted, are suspect at best. Voter ability to filter through fluff is what the vote last year documented. History may eventually evaluate the quality of that filtering.

 

[Grammatron]

Bush approached Cheney and said that he was making a list of people to consider for vice-president. Cheney volunteered to head up the selection committee and came back several months later with the conclusion that none of the men on the list were as qualified as he was. So you are right in doubting that Bush picked Cheney - because Cheney picked himself.

Cheney must be quite sinister to have turned down the offer for the job twice and still get it in the end. I'm glad he's on our side.

 

[Rob Lister]

Cheney must be quite sinister to have turned down the offer for the job twice and still get it in the end. I'm glad he's on our side.

Karl Rove used The Force to convince him.

Rove: "I'm the right choice for VP."

Cheney: "I am the right choice for Vice President!"

 

[corplinx]

If he used human rights as Post Hoc justication for war

Keep spinning, the facts mean nothing, keep repeating the big lie.

 

[Mark]

Cheney must be quite sinister to have turned down the offer for the job twice and still get it in the end. I'm glad he's on our side.

Ladewig's description of events is quite well documented.

 

[Rob Lister]

Re: Re: Should G W Bush be impeached

Keep spinning, the facts mean nothing, keep repeating the big lie.

He isn't spinning. He just hasn't yet read the resolution that authorized the invasion in the first place.

If he had, he would have read several "whereas" clauses that specifically cite pre-hoc human rights reasons.

But he hasn't. So your assertion that he is spinning is completely uncalled for. Recant it and Jeebus will love you.

 

[CapelDodger]

You would be very interested in a book called "Dick: The Man Who is President" by Nation correspondent John Nichols.

Good call : I certainly am. Thanks.

 

[Grammatron]

Ladewig's description of events is quite well documented.

I'd reply but I think we've said to each other everything that could be on that subject

 

[CapelDodger]

You know, I've been hearing that now for the last . . . five years or so. I just don't get it. But, I'm willing to put it aside because, well, because it doesn't matter. The end result is the same. You mention Reagan as a figurehead with Bush (the elder) running him. But Bush the elder, during his presidency, didn't hold a candle to Reagan. Nothing stuck to Reagan and everything stuck to Bush. I don't buy it. I didn't buy that he was dumb either. I did buy that Bush (the elder) was dumb, even though he appeared not to be. He fell for more dem/media traps continuously. By the end of his four years I was HOPING for a Clinton.

Same with Bush. Seems to me he's really not as smart as those around him but, by golly, he knows how to surround himself with really smart people. Rove and Chaney are just two of the very many. That counts too. But, from what I've heard, Bush is no dummy either.

But, 'misunderestimate' him all you wish. It doesn't change the equation one iota.

Bush the Elder as President was a disastrous idea which I can't explain. For eight years he played a very un-Vice Presidential role - it's normally regarded as not-a-proper-job - while Reagan spouted homilies that, indeed, did not make traps for himself because they were completely vacuous. Bush the Elder certainly over-reached himself, probably through vainglory. He remains one of the most powerful people in the Republican movement from what I can see.

Did Bush choose Rove, or Rove choose Bush as his vehicle? Was it Bush the Younger or the Elder that put Cheney in place as VP? We'll be better placed to decide that in a few decades, but right now I'd plump for Bush the Younger being the vote-friendly homily-spouter while the grown-ups get the business done.

From what I've seen of Bush, he's an idiot. Have you noticed how he only gets to sound off on policies that involve Constitutional Amendments that aren't going to happen?

Big speech tomorrow. Should be interesting. I don't doubt Bush will read it perfectly well, of course. He hasn't been seen on the golf-course for a few days, so the coaching must be pretty intense.

 

[CapelDodger]

Back up a minute here. What was fully laid out to the voters last year was confusion, misinformation, innuendo, 1/4 truths, 1/2 truths, 0.87 truths, spin, waffles, illogic, and distraction.

It was a frickin' circus, wasn't it? Hardly a shop-window for Blessed Democracy.

 

[CapelDodger]

Cheney must be quite sinister to have turned down the offer for the job twice and still get it in the end. I'm glad he's on our side.

Remember Julius Caesar? Turned down the crown twice, then got killed just before he reluctantly accepted it. Quite the politician, old Jules.

 

[Grammatron]

Remember Julius Caesar? Turned down the crown twice, then got killed just before he reluctantly accepted it. Quite the politician, old Jules.

Cheney is not Caesar, for one Caesar would never settle for #2 when he could be running Haliburton.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Wow. Bush must have been pretty smart to fool the vast majority of both houses of congress, since, as you suggest, he himself was not fooled.

I'm sure he had help from his puppeteer, Cheney.