Should G W Bush be impeached

[Mark]

Then the case for impeachment is moot.

In terms of actually convicting Bush, I agree. In terms of raising Americans' consciousness about what is going on with this administration, then talking about impeachment does serve a positive purpose.

 

[Rob Lister]

In terms of actually convicting Bush, I agree. In terms of raising Americans' consciousness about what is going on with this administration, then talking about impeachment does serve a positive purpose.

It certainly does, just not the positive purpose you think.

I encourage you to spread your rhetoric far and wide. Especially in the blue states.

 

[Manny]

Which simply demonstrates the disastrous effect of universal suffrage.

And that, even more than any example from Karl Rove's recent remarks, is an increasingly popular and increasingly terrifying aspect of modern liberals in the United States. The belief that after all these years it turns out that the people are just too stupid to govern themselves or even to choose their own representatives to govern. Better to have judges or whoever the elite judge worthy to impose good governance from on high.

I appreciate your honesty and I hope that your example inspires others who believe as you do but have been unwilling to say so now to step forward. Surely the people will see the error of their ways and defer to the wise judgment of you and similarly-minded people.

Good luck with that.

 

[Manny]

...disengenuous at best. At worst, lying. But, hey, you are conservatives and that's what you people do, isn't it?

By Jove, you've figured us out. Everytime a conservative disagrees with your wisdom, we're lying! I bet Halliburton's going to dock my pay for letting you figure out our secret.

 

[Mark]

It certainly does, just not the positive purpose you think.

I encourage you to spread your rhetoric far and wide. Especially in the blue states.

Spare me the sarcasm. I deliberately phrased my comment to mean that healthy discussion could only be good for both sides.

What you call rhetoric, I prefer to call skepticism. Remember that word? Not being affiliated with any party, I am free to be skeptical of anything said by either major party. You might try it sometime.

 

[Mark]

By Jove, you've figured us out. Everytime a conservative disagrees with your wisdom, we're lying! I bet Halliburton's going to dock my pay for letting you figure out our secret.

Sarcasm on my part, I admit. Nevertheless, this administration is either the most incompetent or dishonest I have seen in my lifetime, bar none.

Think about it: a war started for, at best, specious reasons.

The masterminds of 9/11, Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar are alive and free nearly 4 years later.

Massive, record federal budget deficits.

The U.S. held in disdain by nearly every country in the world.

The economy sluggish at best.

Quite a track record for Bush and Cheney; I wonder what they'll do for us next?

 

[Rob Lister]

Spare me the sarcasm. I deliberately phrased my comment to mean that healthy discussion could only be good for both sides.

What you call rhetoric, I prefer to call skepticism. Remember that word? Not being affiliated with any party, I am free to be skeptical of anything said by either major party. You might try it sometime.

Okay, let me see if I understand your position.

You're arguing for something (impeachment) not because it is likely or even possible but because you like the idea of it. That is what you consider skepticism.

I think I understand your position perfectly.

Please continue your rhetoric. It helps me achieve goals that are not only possible but, because of those like yourself, even likely.

 

[Mark]

Okay, let me see if I understand your position.

You're arguing for something (impeachment) not because it is likely or even possible but because you like the idea of it. That is what you consider skepticism.

I think I understand your position perfectly.

Please continue your rhetoric. It helps me achieve goals that are not only possible but, because of those like yourself, even likely.

\

That's not what I said, and you know it. Stop trying that Karl Rove b******t on me. I said discussion about the issues involved can only be healthy. Interesting that conservatives are so frightened by that idea.

Oh, and speaking of Karl Rove b******t, Manny, please show me one quote from a "liberal" who said Americans are too stupid to govern themselves.

 

[Bruce]

Why is it that every time I hear the word "impeach", I think of this song:

Presidents of the United States - Peaches

Movin' to the country,
gonna eat a lot of peaches
Movin' to the country,
Gonna eat me a lot of peaches
Movin' to the country,
gonna eat a lot of peaches
Movin' to the country,
gonna eat a lot of peaches
Peaches come from a can,
they were put there by a man
In a factory downtown
If I had my little way,
I'd eat peaches every day
Sun-soakin' bulges in the shade
Take a little naps where the roots all twist
Squished a rotten peach in my fist
And dreamed about you, woman,
I poked my finger down inside
Make a little room for it to hide
Nature's candy in my hand or can or a pie
Millions of peaches, peaches for me
Millions of peaches, peaches for free
Look out!

IMO, you're not a 'real' president unless you've been impeached, or at least should have been. Abraham Lincoln probably broke more laws in order to keep the country together and eliminate slavery than any other president.

Obiwan Bushie: "Impeach me down, Dems, and I will become more of a historic icon than you can possibly imagine."

 

[Manny]

Sarcasm on my part, I admit. Nevertheless, this administration is either the most incompetent or dishonest I have seen in my lifetime, bar none.

Think about it: a war started for, at best, specious reasons.

The masterminds of 9/11, Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar are alive and free nearly 4 years later.

Massive, record federal budget deficits.

The U.S. held in disdain by nearly every country in the world.

The economy sluggish at best.

Quite a track record for Bush and Cheney; I wonder what they'll do for us next?

And yet, the deficit is quite small as a percent of GDP, as the tax cuts and the natural resiliancy of the American economy kept the recession shallower than past ones. Speaking of which, did you know that the United States' economy is among the fastest-growing on earth? Sure, developing countries like China and India are beating us -- that's natural and, frankly, good for humanity. But Europe? Japan? Pfft. We'll maybe even outdo Australia, which has benefitted from rather than been hurt by commodity price increases.

And you know what, Mark. In the past year, 100 million people cast their first ballots as free people. 100,000,000.

Let Europe hate us and idolize China, just like they hated us when Reagan put missiles over there to beat the Soviets. They'll come around, just like they did before. Well, maybe not France.

 

[Rob Lister]

\

That's not what I said, and you know it. Stop trying that Karl Rove b******t on me. I said discussion about the issues involved can only be healthy. Interesting that conservatives are so frightened by that idea.

That may not be what you meant to write but that's the way I took it. If you'd like to restate your position, please do so. The way it is written I can see no other way to logically interpret it.

As to conservatives frightened of this discussion, once again I don't understand your logic in suggesting that. I consider myself a conservative (though not a republican) and I'm not frightened. In case you haven't noticed, I've been bumping this thread. With good reason.

 

[Manny]

Stop trying that Karl Rove b******t on me.

ROFL!. Is that like a Force Power? "These aren't the laws you're looking for. We can go about our business. Move along. Move along."

Oh, and speaking of Karl Rove b******t, Manny, please show me one quote from a "liberal" who said Americans are too stupid to govern themselves.

I welcome other interpretations of an objection to universal suffrage.

 

[Mephisto]

All of your facts and allegations -- all of them -- were fully laid out to the voters of the United States last year. They were given an opportunity to send the President packing with no muss and no fuss. They decided what weight to give to the intelligence failures and they concluded that a) Bush was not in fact lying and/or b) Bush was lying but he deserves to be in office nonetheless.

And those soldiers? I remember them. How'd they vote? I hear people saying they want to support the troops by bringing them home -- do the troops argree with that proposed plan of action and did they demonstrate it by voting for the candidate more likely to bring them home more quickly? I think an answer to that might be somewhat probative.

You're absolutely right, Manny. I wonder though how many votes Bush would have garnered from the religious-illiterates had he not tied the Republican party to Christianity?

If he weren't associated with such conservative causes (like abortion, stem-cell research, right to die, and other red herrings) he couldn't wave the flag and the crucifix at the dribbling masses and convince them their sons and daughters should fight a war for him.

As the old addage goes; " . . . you can't fool all of the people all of the time." In the first quarter of what promises to be a LONG game, the American public is finally waking up:
______

Here are the Gallup polls

Gallup: Bush Approval Rating Lowest Ever for 2nd-Term Prez at this Point

By E&P Staff

Published: April 05, 2005 11:45 AM ET updated 7:00 PM

NEW YORK It's not uncommon to hear or read pundits referring to President George W. Bush as a "popular" leader or even a "very popular" one. Even some of his critics in the press refer to him this way. Perhaps they need to check the latest polls.

President Bush's approval rating has plunged to the lowest level of any president since World War II at this point in his second term, the Gallup Organization reported today."

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000866232
______

Here's one from Scoop:

ROCHESTER, N.Y., Feb. 19 /PRNewswire/ -- The last two months have taken a heavy toll on the president's popularity, but a modest 52% to 46% majority still gives him positive ratings. Two months ago, almost two-thirds of all U.S. adults (64%) gave the president positive ratings and only just over a third (35%) gave him negative ratings.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO0302/S00200.htm
________

And, believe it or not, here's one from CNN (so much for "real" news)

Paris Hilton beats President Bush in ratings

NEW YORK (Reuters) -- He may have beaten Saddam Hussein, but President George W. Bush was outdone by slinky socialite Paris Hilton when her television show got higher ratings than Bush's exclusive ABC interview Tuesday night.

More Americans watched Fox's "The Simple Life," which depicts the 22-year-old hotel heiress working on an Arkansas farm, than saw Bush being interviewed by Diane Sawyer, Nielsen Media Research said on Thursday.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/TV/12/18/offbeat.hilton.bush.reut/

And you're going to tell me the American people knew what they were doing. As Bill Mahr said, "Bush is like the nice guy you invite to the party, but now he's become the drunken, obnoxious guest who won't go home."

 

[Rob Lister]

I welcome other interpretations of an objection to universal suffrage.

I expect to see more objections to universal suffrage as the '06 election progresses. They won't be stated that way but instead they'll just downplay the virtues of democratic systems in general. The objections will focus on theocratically 'dictated' constitutional democracies and move in outward spirals from there. Given recent successes, there are a 100,000,000 reasons for selecting this strategy.

Point in case: Mephisto just wrote

You're absolutely right, Manny. I wonder though how many votes Bush would have garnered from the religious-illiterates had he not tied the Republican party to Christianity?

I've seen it in the past but I expect to see more of it in the future. The '06 future a little and the '08 future a lot.

 

[Mark]

And yet, the deficit is quite small as a percent of GDP, as the tax cuts and the natural resiliancy of the American economy kept the recession shallower than past ones. Speaking of which, did you know that the United States' economy is among the fastest-growing on earth? Sure, developing countries like China and India are beating us -- that's natural and, frankly, good for humanity. But Europe? Japan? Pfft. We'll maybe even outdo Australia, which has benefitted from rather than been hurt by commodity price increases.

And you know what, Mark. In the past year, 100 million people cast their first ballots as free people. 100,000,000.

Let Europe hate us and idolize China, just like they hated us when Reagan put missiles over there to beat the Soviets. They'll come around, just like they did before. Well, maybe not France.

Ah, yes, the new Republican mantra...the deficit is a small percentage of GDP. So...for the last 50 years, when the deficits were an even smaller percentage of GDP, the Republicans told me they were going to ruin the economy. Now that the deficits are openly CAUSED by the Republicans, they say they don't matter. Were they lying before? Or now?

Reagan didn't beat the Soviets; that is yet another Republican lie. The Soviet system collaped for three reasons: Communism doesn't work, plus Glasnost and Perestroika. Reagan was irrelevant.

"Let Europe hate us." Nice; I see no reason to even respond to such a provincial attitude.

 

[Manny]

I expect to see more objections to universal suffrage as the '06 election progresses. They won't be stated that way but instead they'll just downplay the virtues of democratic systems in general.

I just had a epiphany. Many liberals oppose the liberation of Iraq precisely because they fear that given an opportunity to select their own leader they will become just like us! Given how often I've seen the disgusting comparision of American evangelicals to the taliban I should have seen it sooner.

Mephisto, babycakes, those "religious-illiterates" are America. If you hate them, you hate this country -- demographically, there's just no way around that. Those guys are everywhere. In every income bracket, in every education bracket, across ethnic lines, across professions, everywhere. Now you might disagree with them -- I certainly do --. But you basically have two choices. You can learn to talk to them and understand where they're coming from and engage them as equals. Or you can be called, accurately, an America-hater.

Likewise, CapelDodger can either learn to engage them and win, which shouldn't be too hard if one has the facts on one's side, or he can continue to harbor his fantasies of supressing them out of the democratic process. In deciding which, I'd admonish him to remember which side has the guns.

 

[New Ager]

Let's see. Clinton was impeached for lying about a blowjob.

Bush lied and tens of thousands of people have died as a direct result.

What was the question again?

No, we don't know that Bush lied. At best, he made a mistake. There is still the possibility that WMD's are still there or were smuggled out of the country.

And there were thousands of people already dying under Saddam.

So, I have a number of questions for you.

Are you glad the death camps and rape rooms under Saddam have closed down?

Are you glad Iraq has a freely elected President and is about to adopt a Constitution?

Explain to me the downside of us liberating Iraq.

 

[New Ager]

Sarcasm on my part, I admit. Nevertheless, this administration is either the most incompetent or dishonest I have seen in my lifetime, bar none.

Think about it: a war started for, at best, specious reasons.

The masterminds of 9/11, Osama bin Laden and Mullah Omar are alive and free nearly 4 years later.

Massive, record federal budget deficits.

The U.S. held in disdain by nearly every country in the world.

The economy sluggish at best.

Quite a track record for Bush and Cheney; I wonder what they'll do for us next?

A totally cynical and liberal view of how things are.

Let me help you see things more clearly.

Bush was a leader during 911.

We fractured Bin Laden's gang and many are dead.

We liberated a country.

911 and the war are responsible for the deficit.

The economy is fine.

And probably the next thing Bush will do is cut taxes.

I know it makes liberals cringe.

Oh, and by the way, Bush's ratings don't mean anything really. He's not running again. And with the elite liberal media bashing on him everyday, it's not really surprising And yet, he continues to lead everyday and doesn't make decisions based on polls like another resident of the White House recently did.

I really like President Bush and I like it even more that liberals don't like him. That means he's doing a good job.

 

[Mephisto]

Mephisto, babycakes, those "religious-illiterates" are America. If you hate them, you hate this country -- demographically, there's just no way around that. Those guys are everywhere. In every income bracket, in every education bracket, across ethnic lines, across professions, everywhere. Now you might disagree with them -- I certainly do --. But you basically have two choices. You can learn to talk to them and understand where they're coming from . . .

Wait, I think I'm beginning to see the light . . . ahhhh, now the fact that border relations between Canada and Mexico are better than ever before is a known-known . Now inspirational statements like, "It's in our country's interests to find those who would do harm to us and get them out of harm's way," make all the sense in the world, as does attacking Iraq because we were attacked by people in Afghanistan.

Guess I'll go pray to the Lord to allow the Ten Commandments into public buildings, prayer in public schools, and to bless President Bush in his God-given crusade to spread the word of Jesus. Pass me that snake, would you please?

. . . and engage them as equals. Or you can be called, accurately, an America-hater.

I'm not an America-hater, I'm an American-Idiot hater. I think America was once the greatest country in the world. When we have a leader who openly claim that he gets direction from God, that impresses me about as much as saying he was blessed by a unicorn. Unfortunately, his voting base can't make those distinctions in spite of all the doublespeak.

 

[Mark]

A totally cynical and liberal view of how things are.

Let me help you see things more clearly.

Bush was a leader during 911.

We fractured Bin Laden's gang and many are dead.

We liberated a country.

911 and the war are responsible for the deficit.

The economy is fine.

And probably the next thing Bush will do is cut taxes.

I know it makes liberals cringe.

Oh, and by the way, Bush's ratings don't mean anything really. He's not running again. And with the elite liberal media bashing on him everyday, it's not really surprising And yet, he continues to lead everyday and doesn't make decisions based on polls like another resident of the White House recently did.

I really like President Bush and I like it even more that liberals don't like him. That means he's doing a good job.

That Bush was a leader during 9/11 I agree with. He then let it go to his head and squandered all of the international good will. That is NOT what a good leader does.

We "liberated" a country that is now being torn apart by the terrorists that we let in. And thousands and thousands of Iraqi citizens have died as a result. Nice liberation.

The economy is very weak. Apparently, in your desire to believe good things about Saint Bush, you do not read the financial reports.

Bush already cut taxes and caused the MASSIVE deficits that you (and other conservatives) now claim are unimportant after 50 years of screaming they were destroying the country. And he promised his tax cuts were to be TEMPORARY...which was yet another Bush lie.

What "liberal elite media?" The media in this country have, by and large, sold their souls to the Republican Party. The only reason the "elite liberal" tag sticks is because conservatives think ANY negative report about their heroes simply has to be part of some mysterious, ill-defined, liberal conspiracy.

Bush doesn't make decision based on polls because he doesn't give a rat's a** what the people of this country want unless they are rich, elite, corporate millionaires.