Should Bert and Ernie Marry on Sesame Street?

[Cavemonster]

2 kids, mentioned one of them in my post.

How do you know the kid understood gay marriage from that video? Isn't it just as likely he was confused or uncomfortae and just wanted to leave the room? Maybe he didn't like being on camera? Saying that the kid understood gay marriage is really reaching I think.

What he articulated was all a kid his age needs to understand.

You're both husbands and you love each other.

Period.

 

[marksman]

I'm addressing Nursedan's contention that gay marriage in and of itself should be excluded from the show because "It teaches kids that breaking the law is okay"

Except Nursedan specifically stated that he'd support introducing new characters to the show who were married and gay, so he clearly isn't saying gay marriage in and of itself should be excluded from the show.

I think people are getting hackles raised over nothing. You both agree that gay marriage can be introduced to Sesame Street.

 

[DC]

Yeah right. Just when you think you can't hear anything more asinine. I'm so surprised this comes out of L.A. Really!

Yes let's introduce (mostly very young) children to sexual lifestyle choices, that's what's needed on Sesame Street. Why stop there? Let's have a character into beastiality and maybe a drug addict too. wheeeeeeee

you fail

even kids are smarter than this

 

[DC]

2 kids, mentioned one of them in my post.

How do you know the kid understood gay marriage from that video? Isn't it just as likely he was confused or uncomfortae and just wanted to leave the room? Maybe he didn't like being on camera? Saying that the kid understood gay marriage is really reaching I think.

he understood it perfectly , you are husband and husband. so you love eachother?

he also invited them to play with him Ping pong

 

[Cavemonster]

Except Nursedan specifically stated that he'd support introducing new characters to the show who were married and gay, so he clearly isn't saying gay marriage in and of itself should be excluded from the show.

I think people are getting hackles raised over nothing. You both agree that gay marriage can be introduced to Sesame Street.

But he also made some other arguments, the ones I'm addressing.

But it's not legal in the US. I'm not sure I'm comfortable using children's programming to push social issues like this. The best analogy I can think of is pot. Heck,come to think of it, it would be a little weird to see Bert and Ernie sharing a Blue.
I don't know, I guess it would be OK here in Canada only because they do show other families and other "married" couples. It's been a long time coming and it might be good to introduce these relationships to children. I have no opinion one way or the other.
In the states though, until they make up their minds and get with the times, I don't think it's appropriate.

Yah, but why marry them? Coming out is one thing, but marriage at least in the US, is another. It seems to me if kids can get the same sex marriage thing they can get the "breaking the law is OK" thing.

 

[DC]

I disagree. If they come up with two new gay characters, it will become about them being gay. These will be the "gay characters", but if Bert and Ernie are gay, they will continue to be good old Bert and Ernie, and they will just happen to be gay.

It would be nice if one day that issue would become irrelevant. Their orientation would be as noteworthy and important as the fact that they're bald, or have orange skin.

i think that is a very good point

 

[sadhatter]

More importantly, why? It's a children's television show. Children have plenty on their plates without wading too deeply into marriage between anybody. As noted, for years Bert and Ernie been a couple, a family, a pair, as much as is relevant to a child's world. What does explicitly characterizing them as "married" bring to children who can't reasonably be expected to have any well-formed understanding of any marriage?

Nothing, IMHO. Methinks the proposal is more about messaging through than for the children.

You know i have a weird view on this...

I'm bi, and i have known that since a very, very early age. ( first kiss with a boy, followed the next week by first kiss with a girl. ) and i have always seen B and E as , not gay, but the kind of guys that get thought of as gay. While actually, legitimately just being good friends.

Personally i feel they have greater value as a lesson that " No billy, not all people who appear gay are, and appearing gay shouldn't be an issue. " , as , as a kid a majority of my friends ( some on request of their parents.) would avoid me , due to " that kid not seemin right. " eventually.

I say they should make only one gay, ( actually if i was to have complete control i would like one bi, but that is just because my team seems to have very few cool fictional characters. ) , and the other not bat an eyelash about it.

 

[3point14]

Yeah right. Just when you think you can't hear anything more asinine. I'm so surprised this comes out of L.A. Really!

Yes let's introduce (mostly very young) children to sexual lifestyle choices, that's what's needed on Sesame Street. Why stop there? Let's have a character into beastiality and maybe a drug addict too. wheeeeeeee

You're seriously comparing homosexuality to drug use and bestiality?

Really?

That's your claim?

Care to have a think about it and retract?

 

[3point14]

You know i have a weird view on this...

I'm bi, and i have known that since a very, very early age. ( first kiss with a boy, followed the next week by first kiss with a girl. ) and i have always seen B and E as , not gay, but the kind of guys that get thought of as gay. While actually, legitimately just being good friends.

Personally i feel they have greater value as a lesson that " No billy, not all people who appear gay are, and appearing gay shouldn't be an issue. " , as , as a kid a majority of my friends ( some on request of their parents.) would avoid me , due to " that kid not seemin right. " eventually.

I say they should make only one gay, ( actually if i was to have complete control i would like one bi, but that is just because my team seems to have very few cool fictional characters. ) , and the other not bat an eyelash about it.

You've got Captain Jack! (I don't know if that's points for or against though)

 

[Darat]

You're seriously comparing homosexuality to drug use and bestiality?

Really?

That's your claim?

Care to have a think about it and retract?

He says it will ".. introduce (mostly very young) children to sexual lifestyle choices..", but I suspect he is fine with children being introduced to a "sexual lifestyle choice" as long as that sexual choice is heterosexual, which would mean it is not the sexual aspect that actually concerns him, simply the fact that the two people are of the same gender.

 

[DC]

btw, for children, it is not a sexual lifestyle choice.

 

[sadhatter]

Admittedly, I don't watch much SS these days. I can see where something like death, losing a tooth, or a new baby brother might be covered, but things like abortion, gay marriage, polygamy etc. not so much.
Even in Canada where gay marriage is legal I can see it being polarizing and ultimately doing more harm than good if parents begin boycotting the show because it doesn't reflects their views. (I'm fairly certain it would kill the show in the US)
Some things are better left to the parents to explain and sexuality is one of them.

As much as i don't think B and E are gay, i do think that it is an appropriate subject to deal with.

Some people don't know they arn't straight till later in life, but a decent portion of people do. Being gay or bi isn't just about sex, it is about how you react and feel toward people. I would have given a testicle to have some kind of show as a kid that explained what i was feeling, and that it wasn't evil, or wrong. ( Being bi was worse than being gay, i found a good portion of kids that knew from an early age, was more interested in sexual experimentation than just being friendly, and the classic puppy love kind of childhood crush. )

People get too hung up on the ins and outs ( pun intended) of gay sex, being all there is to being gay. But its not all there is, gay little kids can be just as wholesome, as straight ones and have all the cute little intricacies that come with being a kid, and showing affection.

 

[Drewbot]

Shouldn't they date first?

 

[marksman]

But he also made some other arguments

That's Furcifer, not Nursedan. I think you have the two confused.

 

[3point14]

btw, for children, it is not a sexual lifestyle choice.

I'm pretty sure that, in most, if not all, instances, it's not really a choice, anymore than being tall or short is. That's a different discussion though.

 

[Darat]

btw, for children, it is not a sexual lifestyle choice.

No you don't understand - heterosexuality isn't just about the sex but homosexuality is - and don't get me started on what bisexuality is about....

It would be quite funny to introduce that the apparently heterosexual married couple on Sesame Street were both bisexual, funny because I think it would make some folks' heads explode!

 

[Cavemonster]

That's Furcifer, not Nursedan. I think you have the two confused.

Dammit, you're right!
My apologies to both.

Simply replace "Nursedan" with "Furcifer" in this post:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7464078#post7464078

 

[sadhatter]

But a marriage between a man and a woman (or male bear and female bear ) is different from the very much new construct of marriage between 2 people of the same gender. It's just not something the show needs to get into.

Actually, they could address it if they want to, just not with Bert and Ernie. If they use those two characters to illustrate the issue, then everything we thought about them would be changed. Like there was some sexual tension betwen them that always existed but was never addressed. It would be changing a minor albeit still important part of many people's childhoods, including mine.

Using two new characters would be fine with me!

You know as i have never thought of them as gay, i think 2 new characters ( give them a bit on the show before dropping the bomb.) would provide an awesome contrast. Two characters who are legitimately gay, and 2 who are in that crappy situation of seeming gay.

 

[DC]

I'm pretty sure that, in most, if not all, instances, it's not really a choice, anymore than being tall or short is. That's a different discussion though.

well i have choosen to stay small, because my mamma told me when i am big i have to go work and i stayed small but had to work anyway

 

[sadhatter]

Gay marriage is an entirely new construct. We can quible over the definition of "new" if you wish.

Who said anything about kids? Not me. Getting married and having a child are two different things.

Gay marriage is, but a gay relationship is not. I think the argument is getting too focused on the marriage aspect. I mean i have never seen them as gay, but if they want to have them as gay, do they really need to be married, i mean the following kind of scene would seem to be appropriate ...

** new, female puppet on show, someone tries to set bert or ernie up with her. Bert explains that while he likes her as a friend, he already has a "special friend" , or whatever term they want to use, and it is ernie. **

Simple, not too in depth in regards to the mechanics of being gay , nor the mechanics of adult relationships.