Send in the tanks! (Chavez)

@RandFan: I ignore people and their posts if i don't consider them to be worth a reply. Our friend Dictator Cheney asked me yesterday per PM if i really think posting on this forum is worth the effort. I said yes and mentioned you as a "real sceptic". I respect you and if my posts sound radical, it is because they are radical, i.e. pointing to the source of the problem.

So, why do you still clinge to an extremely cynical view of the situation, that Chavez is in it for personal gains and the venezuelan people are mere masses to direct by propaganda while on the other hand you seem to have a huge problem with acknowleding propaganda by your own media?

I only shoot at you because others aren't available. :)
 
Some basic indicators (venezuelan statistics):

[TABLE="head"]|ca 1998|ca 2007
Percentage of Persons in Extreme Poverty|20,6|9,4
Population with access to sewage services (%)|64|82
Population with access to drinking water (%)|80|92
Infant Mortality Rate (per thousand live births)|21,4|13,9
Beneficiary population of the school food program (million)|0,2|1,8
Gross school enrollment rate in basic education (%)|90|99
Gross school enrollment rate in secondary and professional education (%)|27|41
Gross enrollment rate in higher education (%)|21|30
Number of Pension Recipients (million)|0,4|1,1
Number of free medical operations conducted (thousand)|-|40
National Human Development Index|0,69|0,88[/TABLE]


For the record.
 
If you aren't a fullblown fascist, WildCat, please take the time to inform me on what your main problem with fascism (the merger of state power and economic power) is. Thanks.
 
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Are you just a fool or a fullblown fascist, WildCat?

If you aren't a fullblown fascist, WildCat, please take the time to inform me on what your main problem with fascism (the merger of state power and economic power) is. Thanks.
What on earth gave you the idea I was a fascist? Because I don't think 9/11 was an inside job as you do, therefore I must be a government shill and therefore a fascist?
 
If you aren't a fullblown fascist, WildCat, please take the time to inform me on what your main problem with fascism (the merger of state power and economic power) is. Thanks.

Not fascism.

Not by any definition is that fascism.

P.S. What's with the quote from Honecker?
 
hwo do you know that Chavez knew that they where used in the way you say?

Read my link, it tells you. Also he admitted it was used when he said it should be stopped from being used.

DC said:
thanks ,was an interesting read.

in that blog in only one sentence its claimed that more such lists may exist, but no details about it, alot interesting details about the Tascon List, but nothing about the other list.

See below

DC said:
also the now used public list of all voters is worth a debate i guess. On one side its good on the other side such a list can be abused.

Does anyone know if there is an english version of the Documentation La Lista?

This is the other list and I think it is wrong. How do you feel about it?

What do you think of the info in my link about the abuse of the tascons list?

fair?
 
i dont know, its your friend, is he?
would he alow a Dictator opress him and his people bacuase he is scared to loose his job or not geting a credit?

Why should he be oppressed in the first place that would place him in fear of voting against Chavez? He has lots of children to feed and support and does not want to be denied credit or persecuted again. You just called him a Dictator, I did not. You also call Cheney a dictator.

DC said:
oh dear, thinking seem not to be one of your strong abilitys.
what could i have ment?

Think petition.

DC said:
OSCE for example?

Anything I consider to be uniased ;)
 
@RandFan: I ignore people and their posts if i don't consider them to be worth a reply. Our friend Dictator Cheney asked me yesterday per PM if i really think posting on this forum is worth the effort. I said yes and mentioned you as a "real sceptic". I respect you and if my posts sound radical, it is because they are radical, i.e. pointing to the source of the problem.
It's funny, I know a lot of old friends who have left the forum because it is far too liberal. Tell Dictator Cheney that this forum is a Rorschach test. The views of the forum tell us far more about the viewer than they do about the forum.

That said, I sincerely appreciate your sentiment.

So, why do you still clinge to an extremely cynical view of the situation, that Chavez is in it for personal gains and the venezuelan people are mere masses to direct by propaganda while on the other hand you seem to have a huge problem with acknowleding propaganda by your own media?
The PBS video for start. The fact that a number of important insiders have left Chavez and their criticisms of Chavez reflect my "cynicism". Because Chavez behaves in a manner consistent with someone who does not always have the interests of the people at heart.

I think Chavez, as so many have throughout history, started out with good intentions but he got lost along the way. As I keep saying over and over, perhaps he is the best thing there is for Venezuela. If so then I think that is cynical.
 
Not fascism.

Not by any definition is that fascism.

P.S. What's with the quote from Honecker?

“Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism, as it is the merger of corporate and government power”

Benito Mussolini
 
Read my link, it tells you. Also he admitted it was used when he said it should be stopped from being used.



See below



This is the other list and I think it is wrong. How do you feel about it?

What do you think of the info in my link about the abuse of the tascons list?

fair?

I dont think that is a good idea. Political tolerance is something that has to be learned first by alot Venezuelans. Venzuelan's politic goes very much into the direction "your with us or against us" this goes for the Chavistas but also for alot of the opposition.
Do you know what the goal is of that list?
 
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Why should he be oppressed in the first place that would place him in fear of voting against Chavez? He has lots of children to feed and support and does not want to be denied credit or persecuted again. You just called him a Dictator, I did not. You also call Cheney a dictator.



Think petition.



Anything I consider to be uniased ;)

a credit to feed his kids?
how was he persecuted ? from you that sounds like the situation is going the direction of North korea.

think Petition? in pre chavez venezuela?

What would you consider an unbiased election controll organisation?
 
I dont think that is a good idea. Political tolerance is something that has to be learned first by alot Venezuelans. Venzuelan's politic goes very much into the direction "your with us or against us" this goes for the Chavistas but also for alot of the opposition.
Do you know what the gal is of that list?

Gal?
 
It's funny, I know a lot of old friends who have left the forum because it is far too liberal. Tell Dictator Cheney that this forum is a Rorschach test. The views of the forum tell us far more about the viewer than they do about the forum.

That said, I sincerely appreciate your sentiment.

The PBS video for start. The fact that a number of important insiders have left Chavez and their criticisms of Chavez reflect my "cynicism". Because Chavez behaves in a manner consistent with someone who does not always have the interests of the people at heart.

I think Chavez, as so many have throughout history, started out with good intentions but he got lost along the way. As I keep saying over and over, perhaps he is the best thing there is for Venezuela. If so then I think that is cynical.

hahah a Rorschach test :)
that fits very well indeed.

I liked the PBS video, had some very good critiques in it, but was onesided.

Alot western people depend soley on western media to deliver them information they use to form an oppinion.
So people will see this PBS and maybe the BBC short docu that is also extremly onesided. then news articels like about Crime rates in Caracas, with a positive point about Pena, the opposition's Mayor of Caracas, he seem to have hired 2 good guys to help fighting crime, but they call the charges against Pena "dubious" and with no word they mention that he for example ordered to raid and close the TV station CativaTV in caracas. That didnt even go true press here. While we all learned by our media how RCTV got "closed" by Chavez.
Then we get often presented the infamous and famous Chavez rhetorics against the US goverment and Capitalism and our way of live in general. But almost never something positive gets mentioned. Nor would we find one of the Onesided positive docus about Chavez in our media. or atleast a more balanced one.

you will find alot more stuff about chavez in our media than about North Korea. Like that Venezuela is a far more urgent and dangerous situation.
(It is in regard to Oil but not about Humanity)

So we end up with a majority of western people that would place Chavez on the same level like Stalin and Hitler those are the people we associate with the word Dictator. We dont consider it the more positive way (Garibaldi or Bolivar).

Alot people here can differentiate, including you, but sceptics even when we include the folks that belive to be sceptics, form not the majority. Nor do i belive that the majority of people here did read and watch more closely on the also possitive side of Chavez.

i know its cynical to hear all this from a guy that uses a username like Dictator Cheney.
It stems from an overreaction on my side about NSPD-51, which in an emergency will use a Dictator in the more positive way, which i have trouble with to associate it with Bush or Cheney.

Also do i like to provoke, whish my name sure would do, would Cheney be more popular. Or would he actually care what the people think.

Also I am far less Chavez fan than one gets the impression by reading me while I defend him.
 
a credit to feed his kids?
how was he persecuted ? from you that sounds like the situation is going the direction of North korea.

Credit to tide him over when he lost his job.

Look at the link. Much persecution just for signing a petition against the govt. Is that fair?

DC said:
think Petition? in pre chavez venezuela?

I am not talking about pre chavez, stop trying to deflect.

DC said:
What would you consider an unbiased election controll organisation?

try me
 
Credit to tide him over when he lost his job.

Look at the link. Much persecution just for signing a petition against the govt. Is that fair?



I am not talking about pre chavez, stop trying to deflect.



try me


how big was that "persecution"? a few cases or more a systematic government driven persecution.

and how easy would a known Chavista get a job in a private owned company?

you and me both are not unbiased, or is there an organisation called "try me"?
 

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