....and one of the reasons (the main one ?) why Obama was unable to achieve very much was that the GOP, from day one, was dedicated to ensuring that Obama got nothing done.
"SEND HER BACK!" Will they defend this?
- Thread starter Travis
- Start date
....and one of the reasons (the main one ?) why Obama was unable to achieve very much was that the GOP, from day one, was dedicated to ensuring that Obama got nothing done.
TurkeysGhost
Penultimate Amazing
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Upchurch
Papa Funkosophy
*Shrugs* Feet to the fire if you're a politician and your response to why you can't get anything done is because the other party won't let you, you're just admitting you suck as a politician.
"Getting stuff done even when people agree with you" is the literal defining point of politics. It's what a politician is. If you don't have that skill you're not a politician, you're an idealist wasting our time.
Besides the Republicans don't seem to have much problem doing damage when the Democrats are in power. They seemed to have figure out a way to do stuff even when they aren't completely unopposed.
If we're waiting for the Dems to control the Presidency, both Houses of Congress, SCOTUS, a majority of state governorships and state legislatures, and all the major Houses of Westeros before they can get anything done we're screwed because that ain't happening in our lifetime.
Republicans are going to be in some form of power for... ever for our purposes. If the Dems can't find someway of dealing with that (and pointing out "But they are so stupid and crazy and unreasonable!" over and over isn't dealing with) then they might as well not be there at all.
"Getting stuff done even when people agree with you" is the literal defining point of politics. It's what a politician is. If you don't have that skill you're not a politician, you're an idealist wasting our time.
Besides the Republicans don't seem to have much problem doing damage when the Democrats are in power. They seemed to have figure out a way to do stuff even when they aren't completely unopposed.
If we're waiting for the Dems to control the Presidency, both Houses of Congress, SCOTUS, a majority of state governorships and state legislatures, and all the major Houses of Westeros before they can get anything done we're screwed because that ain't happening in our lifetime.
Republicans are going to be in some form of power for... ever for our purposes. If the Dems can't find someway of dealing with that (and pointing out "But they are so stupid and crazy and unreasonable!" over and over isn't dealing with) then they might as well not be there at all.
3point14
Pi
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The broadly accepted definition of antisemitism specifically references criticizing Israel.
Which is bollocks. The 51st State can kiss my arse and is responsible for ******* horrific things.
"New legislation entrenched discrimination against non-Jewish citizens. Israeli forces killed more than 290 Palestinians, including over 50 children; many were unlawfully killed as they were shot while posing no imminent threat to life. Israel imposed an illegal blockade on the Gaza Strip for the 11th year in a row, subjecting approximately 2 million inhabitants to collective punishment and exacerbating a humanitarian crisis"
https://www.amnesty.org/en/countrie.../israel-and-occupied-palestinian-territories/
I quite like the Jews I've met though.
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Belz...
Fiend God
So what should Obama have done? Bypass congress completely? He did that as much as he could and it wasn't pretty. Try to compromise? You know how that worked out.
I don't agree with you. In this case the other party really did cock-block everything Obama tried.
Well I for one don't think 'doing damage' is something the Democrats should strive for. There's enough of one party doing this.
3point14
Pi
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Yeah, that's a shock. I thought it was all Hillary's fault...
Juniversal
CIA + FBI + NWO Employee
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DEmoCratS keEp blAckS on tHe plAntATion wiTh wElfAre aNd haNdoUts [Insert Spongebob meme here].
lomiller
Penultimate Amazing
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So are Trump supporters…
I'm just saying that:
The People: "Do something!"
The Sane Party: "We can't, the Unsane Party Won't Let Us!"
is a closed loop.
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Belz...
Fiend God
Yeah but Obama DID try.
Yeah and that's just wonderful and peachy as a moral victory.
But on a functional level the Democratic Party might as well not exist if they can't do anything until some hypothetical future point where there's no Republicans in any position of power at all.
Especially since the Supreme Court is going to be GOP controlled for... probably the rest of our lives.
The Dems are going to be fighting with one hand tied behind their back until mid-century, minimum. They got to learn to land some blows with what they have, somehow.
I don't have exact answers as to how. That's their job. That's what we elect them for.
Belz...
Fiend God
Oh, stop it. That's not my point. The point is that the claim, in his case, is correct. That's all.
Yes is "technically correct." It's a perfectly fine mathematicians answer.
My point is it an unacceptable answer. If the Dems can't deal with the Republicans, what's next? We just wait for the end?
Belz...
Fiend God
It's JUST correct. It's a true statement. There's nothing technical about it.
God damn it.
Armitage72
Philosopher
Once upon a time, the two political parties were willing to negotiate to get things done. President Obama tried to negotiate, but a significant portion of Republican campaigning had been based on portraying the Democrats as evil, baby-killing, Grandma-kicking, Socialist monsters out to destroy America. This left the Republicans either unwilling to cooperate or unable to cooperate for fear of being condemned as traitors by the party and their base.
And when you're playing a game of chess and the other player starts losing and decides he's no longer going to play chess but going to play "Flip the Board Over"... you can't get around that by playing chess better.
Right now the Dems and/or their supporters seem to want to stay in some impossible limbo land where the Republicans are never going to play the game right again but the Dems are going to play the game better until they win and that's not how the world works.
If the Republicans really have stopped playing the game, they aren't going to start playing it again. So the Dems might have to stop playing it as well. You're not going to talk, trick, guilt, or force the Republicans to play chess with you anymore. They got what they want by flipping over the board.
Everytime I suggest anything that counters the "Well we're losing but here's all the reason it's not our fault" narrative I get a lot of vitriol.
Again... I keep feeling like I really have to just pull an honest answer out of people on this.
Have you given up? Is victory on the table anymore or you all just watching the world burn at this point?
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phiwum
Penultimate Amazing
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Not clear what your solution is.
Should the Democrats adopt the Republican playbook and obstruct for its own sake? That doesn't seem to benefit the US in the long or short term.
Should the Democrats cave? Surely not.
The only obvious path is to attempt to govern and to reach out to the people with truth, argument and persuasion. That's not working so well, but I don't see any alternative.
Again if "All is lost, I've given up and I'm just waiting for the end" is your answer, fine, but admit it.
