Incidentally, from here: http://www.faqs.org/faqs/skeptic-faq/
Zep said:
The fun here is that nobody is trying to prove anything to anybody. This is very well writen in the "Experience of a fool" book.
If, for example, Joe wants to get healthy and he heard that a relative of a friend of a friend's relative, who had the same illness, was walking down a street in Uhrupensk, a brick fell on his head and suddenly he got healthy... Joe would jump on the first plane to Uhrupensk, stand under the same building and pray for another brick to come down.
I'm hiperbolizing, of coruse.
Yet if an ill person doesn not want to get healthy, his attitude would be "first you show me, then you prove me, then you convince me... then maybe I'll do the exerice... but just to prove you that it does not work."
Same is with existance of energy. If you realy want to test it, build a Kirlian camera and test it. Even if your results would be negative, it would only prove that Kirlian's effect has nothing to do with energy.
On the other side, if you start playing with energy balls ( first DEIR book, link twice above ) soon you would be able to make balls dense enough for others to feel them.
thatguywhojuggles
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bratok said:
Bratok,
The only reason we have things like modern medicine and technology is because we work together. If every person on the planet had to solve their own problems we would get nowhere. Imagine a world where if you wanted to eat you would have to grow your own food, and if you wanted to wear clothing you would have to make your own clothing (which includes growing the cotton, processing the cotton, weaving it into fabric, sewing peices of the fabric together--for which you will need a needle, that is metal, so you will have to do some mining, and a little blacksmithing work...)
Am I making my point? I can go on. You will need food for you one person society as well.
Simply put, Tricky is trying to point out that humans work together. It is not lazy of you to let someone else grow your food, just as it would not be lazy of me to ask someone with these "superpowers" to help me.
Hope this helps.
You missunderstood, in your example there still is the problem that one has to solve and become wiser. Like if one wants to eat ( problem ) he as to either grow his own food ( one possible solution ) or better earn money and buy it ( another solution ).
Yet if he wants to eat ( problem ) and someone with superpowers would be giving his food for free all the time, he would not need to do anything to get this food... it might very well lead to degradation.
While I do not think that you would be able to buy any super-power service, because you can do all that yourself. Most likely they would answer "god has two hands, so do it!"
Want to be healthy? Do the exercises! Want to open your intuition? After you're healthy, do other certain manipulations...
Good Luck!
Yet if he wants to eat ( problem ) and someone with superpowers would be giving his food for free all the time, he would not need to do anything to get this food... it might very well lead to degradation.
While I do not think that you would be able to buy any super-power service, because you can do all that yourself. Most likely they would answer "god has two hands, so do it!"
Want to be healthy? Do the exercises! Want to open your intuition? After you're healthy, do other certain manipulations...
Good Luck!
I guess it didn't.
If you really WANT to believe in something then you will, like Bartok, and you will use faulty logic to justify your arguments eg:
How about:
Want to be healthy? Do the exercises! Want to create an anti-gravity car? After you're healthy, scrunch up your face and concentrate really hard and wish for one...
Now, which is the more ridiculous statement?
thatguywhojuggles
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bratok said:
Trust me, you CAN buy "super power service." Just ask Sylvia Browne (or any number of psychics who will gladly take your $500 for a 45 minute phone call.) The real question is does it work?
thatguywhojuggles
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bratok said:
Why do you say this? They claim (just as you do) that their powers are real.
BanthaTracks
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bratok said:
You said it brother.
Ladewig
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So, summing up, no one else in the entire world can help you, and wise people can help you.
Of course the exception is that if someone is dying of starvation, then offering lessons in how to use a fishing pole is quite a bit crueler than giving the person a fish and then teaching fishing techniques (especially if you have lots and lots of fish).
It appears as if you actually believe that the appropriate response to genocide in the Sudan is to say to the victims, "you have a very serious problem, but you have not yet discovered the wisdom necessary to avoid being killed by gun-weilding mobs, c'est la vie, I hope you find more wisdom in the next life." And to the gunmen, it is approriate to say, "you are killing people and that is a problem, I do hope that you develop, on your own of course, the wisdom necessary to see that this type of killing is barbaric and wrong. If I had that wisdom, I wouldn't give it to you because you are not spiritually ready for it."
That is not an answer to my questions at all. Please stick to the subject, they should be very easy to answer in only a few words.bratok said:
Again: Do you think that your claims of "energy" and so on are testable? Can you really prove them to someone who doesn't believe you? If so, how would you do that? What would be your method of proof?
>> Do you think that your claims of "energy" and so on are testable?
If (!) I would like to prove anything to anybody I would make a dense energy ball and give it to him. He would feel it a bit softer then an airbaloon.
>> It appears as if you actually believe that the appropriate response to genocide in the Sudan is to say to the victims... blah... blah... blah...
To what I know, Masters know ( think ) that this world is the place to which one has came to see the battle of "good" and "evil", of positive emotions, of creativety fight agains degradation and destruction, WITHIN HIM.
Unlike simple lazy people who want this to be a place with no problems, with nothing to do, rather then sunbath on the beach.
There should be other places for that...
They say this is the place where one came to find good withing himself. Therefor there also should be something "bad" around. Like to see a light there should be a black background.
Yet I'm not saying it is so... maybe they [masters] came to this thought after useing some no-good mashrooms
...
Anyway, to end this bragging about "Selfish Masters"...
- Do you believe that there are any Masters that have revealed their hidden Super-Powers?
1. No, no such powers exist!
Therefor no seflish Masters also exist. Case closed.
2. Yes, there are people who used certain knowlege to reveal this powers.
Then how can YOU, yes you, the one who is reading those lines, be so SELFISH??? Why can't you also reveal those powers and save the humanity??? How? The links above would be enough for a string to pull. Why do you expect someone else to do it for you???
Good Luck!
If (!) I would like to prove anything to anybody I would make a dense energy ball and give it to him. He would feel it a bit softer then an airbaloon.
>> It appears as if you actually believe that the appropriate response to genocide in the Sudan is to say to the victims... blah... blah... blah...
To what I know, Masters know ( think ) that this world is the place to which one has came to see the battle of "good" and "evil", of positive emotions, of creativety fight agains degradation and destruction, WITHIN HIM.
Unlike simple lazy people who want this to be a place with no problems, with nothing to do, rather then sunbath on the beach.
There should be other places for that...
They say this is the place where one came to find good withing himself. Therefor there also should be something "bad" around. Like to see a light there should be a black background.
Yet I'm not saying it is so... maybe they [masters] came to this thought after useing some no-good mashrooms
...Anyway, to end this bragging about "Selfish Masters"...
- Do you believe that there are any Masters that have revealed their hidden Super-Powers?
1. No, no such powers exist!
Therefor no seflish Masters also exist. Case closed.
2. Yes, there are people who used certain knowlege to reveal this powers.
Then how can YOU, yes you, the one who is reading those lines, be so SELFISH??? Why can't you also reveal those powers and save the humanity??? How? The links above would be enough for a string to pull. Why do you expect someone else to do it for you???
Good Luck!
bratok said:
Does this person have to see you do it?
Can we measure e.g. blood pressure, brain activity, whatever, in this person, to see if he really feels poorly?
This sounds peculiarly like the Yellow Bamboo claim. I will now use my psychic powers and predict that you will never do an actual test.
Bartok,
Question for you:
Do you agree that there is a difference between Power/Ability and Technology?
The wise man can hold on to the ability or "special" power (eg. the knowledge of trigonomtry). And insist that the others must be motivated to learn it by themselves. But unless he made the step to turn it into a "technology", the knowledge and skill will die with him.
Consider weaving a piece of cloth from wool or cotton.
It is technically possible to do by people manually. Master weavers could do it with their hands and simple tools, with years and years of practise behind them. In addition, they requires their apprentice to observe their profound philosophy, so as to derive the best result.
But it is impossible to do it as efficiently as a modern cloth weaving machine. Which produces as high a quality as the humans.
But the fact is. While many clamor for a piece of the cloth to dress themselves beautifully, few will want to be a master weaver.
Similarly for any "power". Most people wants to use the power to do things, to move society. They'll vote for a fish market to supply fish, not mandatory lesson on fishing skills.
Especially not those lessons by "fishing" guru, who says things like. "You need faith/practise to fish well ... and it takes a long time to accomulate enough faith/practise."
While a skillful cave may have been taught the perfect swimming skill so as to catch fish. But that is far less exciting when compared with our modern fishing technologies/innovations. (boats, rods, nets, sonar, baits etc etc)
Question for you:
Do you agree that there is a difference between Power/Ability and Technology?
The wise man can hold on to the ability or "special" power (eg. the knowledge of trigonomtry). And insist that the others must be motivated to learn it by themselves. But unless he made the step to turn it into a "technology", the knowledge and skill will die with him.
Consider weaving a piece of cloth from wool or cotton.
It is technically possible to do by people manually. Master weavers could do it with their hands and simple tools, with years and years of practise behind them. In addition, they requires their apprentice to observe their profound philosophy, so as to derive the best result.
But it is impossible to do it as efficiently as a modern cloth weaving machine. Which produces as high a quality as the humans.
But the fact is. While many clamor for a piece of the cloth to dress themselves beautifully, few will want to be a master weaver.
Similarly for any "power". Most people wants to use the power to do things, to move society. They'll vote for a fish market to supply fish, not mandatory lesson on fishing skills.
Especially not those lessons by "fishing" guru, who says things like. "You need faith/practise to fish well ... and it takes a long time to accomulate enough faith/practise."
While a skillful cave may have been taught the perfect swimming skill so as to catch fish. But that is far less exciting when compared with our modern fishing technologies/innovations. (boats, rods, nets, sonar, baits etc etc)
>> The wise man can hold on to the ability or "special" power (eg. the knowledge of trigonomtry).
The knowlege of trigonometry or math is considered, by them, as "dead knowlege".
Their knowlege is
1. knowing what to do to, for example, heal yourself or teleportate or something...
2. Being able to use it on practice.
For example, you can know how a car works, yet it would not make you a good driver.
>> While a skillful cave may have been taught the perfect swimming skill so as to catch fish.
>> But that is far less exciting when compared with our modern fishing technologies/innovations.
But if the science is not yet able to do thinks they can do "by hand". Like medicine is a great thing, yet it can not cure and heal everything. Also airplane are great, but in some cases teleportation might be more fun
And, most important, their knowlege mostly is not for fun of levitating around, but for the fuller understanding of the world.
Hiperbolizing one again.
CFLarsen, let me answer you with a joke.
Little Johny comes home:
- Mom, we have a new teacher. He is sooo religios!
- What do you mean?
- Whenever I tell him something, he's saying "Oh my God... Oh my God... Oh my God..."
The knowlege of trigonometry or math is considered, by them, as "dead knowlege".
Their knowlege is
1. knowing what to do to, for example, heal yourself or teleportate or something...
2. Being able to use it on practice.
For example, you can know how a car works, yet it would not make you a good driver.
>> While a skillful cave may have been taught the perfect swimming skill so as to catch fish.
>> But that is far less exciting when compared with our modern fishing technologies/innovations.
But if the science is not yet able to do thinks they can do "by hand". Like medicine is a great thing, yet it can not cure and heal everything. Also airplane are great, but in some cases teleportation might be more fun
And, most important, their knowlege mostly is not for fun of levitating around, but for the fuller understanding of the world.
Hiperbolizing one again.
CFLarsen, let me answer you with a joke.
Little Johny comes home:
- Mom, we have a new teacher. He is sooo religios!
- What do you mean?
- Whenever I tell him something, he's saying "Oh my God... Oh my God... Oh my God..."
CFLarsen said:
Oh god...
Anyway, I do not know if the "feeling in hand" can be measured. Can you measure that someone is holding an airbaloon or not?
And no, he does not have to see me ( or anybody ) do it - either his eyes can be blindfolded or he can be placed behind a curtain with his hand stretched out of it.
I hope I have answered your question.
[Here we go, Claus...bratok said:
]OK, so if a person held their hand out through a hole in a curtain so they couldn't see their own hand, and someone put an "energy ball" in their hand on the other side of the curtain, would they be able to feel the "energy ball" each and every time? 2 times out of 10? 6 times out of 10? 10 out of 10?