Seeing Cryptids: The Problems

[comncents]

When something like this comes up...

"When pressed about the game cam issue, and why they don't work for Bigfoot, I responded. Again, I don't know why but I have a few ideas, nothing provable. One of those ideas is avoidance. That's the reason I've never been seen on a game cam. I'm aware of them as they are out of place in the woods, so I simply avoid them."

My initial reaction is to respond with something like this....

Chris,

You have previously stated that you are in the "biological entity" camp, rather than the "paranormal/special powers" camp. Without resorting to some type of special power, can you please explain how an animal that has no technology of its own could know what a game cam is, how it works, and why and how it would know to avoid them?
As was shown above, chimps don't seem to have a problem with them.

But that just means the BLAARGer scores another point. The BLAARGer doesn't really believe his pro-footie argument - he just wants to see how long he can string others on.

My real question for Chis would be about his "free" website. If anyone has ever actually used the DONATE BUTTON, did you go to sleep happy knowing that conned someone out of some money or did you feel a little guilt?

 

[Northern Lights]

When something like this comes up...

"When pressed about the game cam issue, and why they don't work for Bigfoot, I responded. Again, I don't know why but I have a few ideas, nothing provable. One of those ideas is avoidance. That's the reason I've never been seen on a game cam. I'm aware of them as they are out of place in the woods, so I simply avoid them."

My initial reaction is to respond with something like this....

Chris,

You have previously stated that you are in the "biological entity" camp, rather than the "paranormal/special powers" camp. Without resorting to some type of special power, can you please explain how an animal that has no technology of its own could know what a game cam is, how it works, and why and how it would know to avoid them?
As was shown above, chimps don't seem to have a problem with them.

But that just means the BLAARGer scores another point. The BLAARGer doesn't really believe his pro-footie argument - he just wants to see how long he can string others on.

My real question for Chis would be about his "free" website. If anyone has ever actually used the DONATE BUTTON, did you go to sleep happy knowing that conned someone out of some money or did you feel a little guilt?

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0110832

 

[Resume]

http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0110832

Camera traps can be heard and seen by animals (when they're placed where they can be heard and seen) . . . yet they still capture images of animals.

 

[River]

How would a bigfoot know what a game camera is, and what it does?? lol.... so silly.

 

[comncents]

In the most basic terms, the article is about camera traps when used in repeated capture type studies. Some animals may learn avoidance behavior - after exposure to camera traps - thus skewing the data. The article claims that cats are the most aware of camera traps...but it seems that camera traps take pictures of cats all over the world...on a regular basis. Even those that are down to a minimal population.

So if there was evidence that Ol' Footie avoided camera traps - after being exposed a time or two, well then maybe you would have an argument, but then again - we would still have the first few images. I'm still waiting for an argument that doesn't include some special power. Footies are reported to show up around houses, barns, dumpsters, Home Depot and campfires, so human stuff doesn't seem to bother them. Why do they camera hate camera traps? Why are there no game cam pics of footie? Reasonable, common sense conclusion - they don't exist. Unreasonable, fantasy-based conclusion - they know how to avoid them.

 

[The Shrike]

Well of course chimps have no fear of camera traps 'cause they've never had to worry about dangers from human-associated items in the woods.

Oh wait.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Well, the game cam issue is of course a minor one, but I would just point out first of all that you are contradicting yourself, as having said before that you could walk right by a game cam without being photographed, and now saying you simply avoid them. Of course it's possible that every bigfoot that ever walked the earth is sufficiently smart and observant to have avoided every game camera ever placed anywhere on the earth, but it seems a bit of a long shot, especially if the "out of place" aspect of a fixed and immobile game camera is more tangible to them than a person carrying a substandard video camera, which is so often claimed to hit its mark.

Of course, anything is possible. Maybe it's just chance, and tomorrow someone will catch a full frontal video of one with his game camera. Many things are possible which are too unlikely for most of us to bother with.

I'm not in contradiction with my earlier statement at all. Perhaps I should have specified I walked past the backside of the game cams.

Of course the game cam stuff is all speculation. How would they know what those things are or what they do? They couldn't possibly know. But I think that they would know the cams are not natural and so also know to stay away from them. Again, only speculation.

When something like this comes up...

"When pressed about the game cam issue, and why they don't work for Bigfoot, I responded. Again, I don't know why but I have a few ideas, nothing provable. One of those ideas is avoidance. That's the reason I've never been seen on a game cam. I'm aware of them as they are out of place in the woods, so I simply avoid them."

My initial reaction is to respond with something like this....

Chris,

You have previously stated that you are in the "biological entity" camp, rather than the "paranormal/special powers" camp. Without resorting to some type of special power, can you please explain how an animal that has no technology of its own could know what a game cam is, how it works, and why and how it would know to avoid them?
As was shown above, chimps don't seem to have a problem with them.

But that just means the BLAARGer scores another point. The BLAARGer doesn't really believe his pro-footie argument - he just wants to see how long he can string others on.

My real question for Chis would be about his "free" website. If anyone has ever actually used the DONATE BUTTON, did you go to sleep happy knowing that conned someone out of some money or did you feel a little guilt?

As above, anyone can only speculate about the game cams. I agree 100% that there's no way they could know what the cams are or what they do. The only thing I can figure is that they can determine the cams aren't part of nature and so avoid them.

Alot of other theories are floating around. Maybe they can smell them? Maybe they can hear them? It's all speculation as nobody really knows.

I had forgotten about that button, if I remember right it was set up for Bill Gates. To answer your question, no, Bill Gates never donated. Nor anyone else.

In the most basic terms, the article is about camera traps when used in repeated capture type studies. Some animals may learn avoidance behavior - after exposure to camera traps - thus skewing the data. The article claims that cats are the most aware of camera traps...but it seems that camera traps take pictures of cats all over the world...on a regular basis. Even those that are down to a minimal population.

So if there was evidence that Ol' Footie avoided camera traps - after being exposed a time or two, well then maybe you would have an argument, but then again - we would still have the first few images. I'm still waiting for an argument that doesn't include some special power. Footies are reported to show up around houses, barns, dumpsters, Home Depot and campfires, so human stuff doesn't seem to bother them. Why do they camera hate camera traps? Why are there no game cam pics of footie? Reasonable, common sense conclusion - they don't exist. Unreasonable, fantasy-based conclusion - they know how to avoid them.

Good article. It's all speculation though.

If you wish to determine the reason there are no game cam pics of old big and hairy is because they don't exist, that's more speculation I suppose.
Chris B.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

This is for Chris. Hope it's helpful.

Here is a list of rules for cryptozoologists to take seriously if they want to be taken seriously, based on Loxton and Prothero (from ABOMINABLE SCIENCE). I've condensed, paraphrased, and quoted directly from their last chapter: “Why Do People Believe in Monsters? The Complexity of Cryptozoology.” Notice, most of these rules have been addressed or advocated by skeptics upthread.

Rethink fundamental assumptions. Instead of automatically assuming an odd occurrence is cryptid related, take a step back and ask the question: What really happened? Use Occam's razor. Think of the simplest explanation, the one with the fewest assumptions. Apply it to see if it fits the circumstance. Think of this aphorism: “When you hear hoofbeats in the night, think first of horses, not of zebras.”

Test the null hypothesis. As L. and P. relate it to cryptids, “...the default scientific assumption is that any strange observation can be explained by known natural causes, the less likely explanation --- cryptid activity or paranormal phenomena – should be accepted only when all natural causes can be ruled out.”

Meet the burden of proof. The evidence for Bigfoot must be strong enough to overcome established facts relating to its existence/non-existence. Do eyewitness accounts and tracks, both unverifiable as true evidence for Bigfoot, outweigh the history of failure of organized attempts to produce definitive evidence? Or, to quote L. and P. again: “It follows from the claim that eyewitnesses fairly often see cryptids that carcasses or bones of those cryptids should also fairly often appear – but they do not.”

Collect high-quality data. Where is the real evidence? Bones, bodies, hair, scat even? If you are going to collect eyewitness accounts, how about doing more with them than just nodding in agreement? I remember a sighting report written up by a local Bigfoot group concerning a young girl who saw what was essentially Patterson's Bigfoot, glimpsed in her backyard, in a town not 45 minutes from my apartment in Dallas, Texas. Despite all the improbabilities inherent in this account, the investigator from a Bigfoot field research team said the girl seemed honest and, in any event, why would she lie!

Don't use or publicize sub-par videos or photos, i.e., blobsquatches.

Be skeptical of your own data. L. and P. quote Richard Feynman: “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself – and you are the easiest person to fool.”

Thanks Jerry, all valid points and a very well done, informative post.
If posts were rated by applause this one would receive a standing ovation. Chris B.

 

[River]

Well of course chimps have no fear of camera traps 'cause they've never had to worry about dangers from human-associated items in the woods.

Oh wait.

Same with larger wild primates as well. Those images of silverbacks being hauled out of the bush look something like we might have seen a couple hundred years ago here in the United states if bigfoot were a real creature. Seems like ole stankfoot just cant get a break.

 

[bruto]

I'm not in contradiction with my earlier statement at all. Perhaps I should have specified I walked past the backside of the game cams.
Of course the game cam stuff is all speculation. How would they know what those things are or what they do? They couldn't possibly know. But I think that they would know the cams are not natural and so also know to stay away from them. Again, only speculation.



As above, anyone can only speculate about the game cams. I agree 100% that there's no way they could know what the cams are or what they do. The only thing I can figure is that they can determine the cams aren't part of nature and so avoid them.

Alot of other theories are floating around. Maybe they can smell them? Maybe they can hear them? It's all speculation as nobody really knows.

I had forgotten about that button, if I remember right it was set up for Bill Gates. To answer your question, no, Bill Gates never donated. Nor anyone else.



Good article. It's all speculation though.

If you wish to determine the reason there are no game cam pics of old big and hairy is because they don't exist, that's more speculation I suppose.
Chris B.

You said, in response to a challenge on your statement that game cams do not work on bigfoot, and I quote, "I've walked past a few game cams before, no pic was taken of me either. I assure you I exist." and "See above, I exist, yet I can pass game cams everytime without having my pic taken. "

If by those statements you meant that game cams will not take pictures of things they are not aimed at, then you have to pardon others for being so kind as to presume that they were not worthless misinformation that would discredit any sane adult.

When the hole is deep enough, stop digging.

 

[River]

 

[LTC8K6]

I've walked past a few game cams before, no pic was taken of me either. I assure you I exist.

See above, I exist, yet I can pass game cams everytime without having my pic taken.

Are you now asserting that you meant you were walking behind game cams, rather than that you passed in front of them and they missed you?

 

[tsig]

Are you now asserting that you meant you were walking behind game cams, rather than that you passed in front of them and they missed you?

He gotcha.


In a third grade sort of way.

 

[LTC8K6]

The thing is, neither he nor bigfoot are likely to pass a properly set up and working game cam trap without being caught.

A single unhidden/un-camouflaged camera, sure. But not a properly set up multi camera trap.

 

[River]

/snipped for brevity

Cough cough.

Cough.

Coughity cough, cough cough.

Replace teapot with bigfoot FTW.

You get the idea. It's always one of these links with Chris's arguments. (loosely calling them arguments!)

 

[carlitos]

Bigfoot can get ciggies and lighter from the some places he gets all his stuff. From your kitchen, your car, your campsite. How do you know he doesn't lounge around your house and watch TV when you're not there? You're missing the bigger picture here, Chris. Cigarette smoking Bigfoot works. I ask you this... why can't Bigfoot smoke? He's a big boy. He can do whatever the hell he wants. Who's going to tell a 9ft tall, rage prone, flesh eating behemoth that he can't enjoy the smooth virginia flavour of a Camel? Not me. You're missing an opportunity with your negative attitude. Go for it.

Here's a quiz for starters... What brand does Bigfoot prefer? Is he a Marlboro man? Luckies? Does he prefer regular, or menthol? Does Biggie like filters, or does he dig the full, rich rush you can only get from unfiltered?

You are absolutely cracking me up. Here's how a caveman smokes:

I've walked past a few game cams before, no pic was taken of me either. I assure you I exist.
...

See above, I exist, yet I can pass game cams everytime without having my pic taken.

Hmm. The above is a claim. Chris can pass game cams without his pic being taken.

One of those ideas is avoidance. That's the reason I've never been seen on a game cam. I'm aware of them as they are out of place in the woods, so I simply avoid them.

A new claim. Chris avoids game cams.

My real question for Chis would be about his "free" website. If anyone has ever actually used the DONATE BUTTON, did you go to sleep happy knowing that conned someone out of some money or did you feel a little guilt?

Another claim. Free website.

My site must irk you for some reason. It's free, if you don't like it, don't go there.

I had forgotten about that button, if I remember right it was set up for Bill Gates. To answer your question, no, Bill Gates never donated. Nor anyone else.

Whoops. Donate button.

Chris, you are lying. You should stop.

You don't have "HD Video" of a primate from 15 feet away.
You don't have photos of a primate from 51 feet away.
You don't have a free website.
You won't honestly answer a question about bigfoot tracks and how wide the road was.
You aren't impervious to game cams.

Seriously, what kind of idiots do you think read this site?

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

My real question for Chis would be about his "free" website. If anyone has ever actually used the DONATE BUTTON, did you go to sleep happy knowing that conned someone out of some money or did you feel a little guilt?

If you don't mind, can you give me the link to the Bill Gates donate button on my website? I remember doing that somewhere as a joke in 2010, but I can't seem to find it for deletion? Thanks, Chris B.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

You said, in response to a challenge on your statement that game cams do not work on bigfoot, and I quote, "I've walked past a few game cams before, no pic was taken of me either. I assure you I exist." and "See above, I exist, yet I can pass game cams everytime without having my pic taken. "

If by those statements you meant that game cams will not take pictures of things they are not aimed at, then you have to pardon others for being so kind as to presume that they were not worthless misinformation that would discredit any sane adult.

When the hole is deep enough, stop digging.

Bolding mine. My opinion was and is that one of the factors that might be in play is avoidance. I don't see where you're trying to go with misinformation, discrediting sane adults, or digging holes.

Yes, I have routinely walked past game cams without having my image taken since game cams made a debut in KY forests of this area.

How do I do it? I avoid them. By avoiding them, I'm not standing front and center lens waving and jumping up and down to purposely trip the camera. I see where they are and simply walk past them opposite of the lens.

Could I walk in front of a game cam without it capturing enough of me for identification? Sure, you just have to get close to the lens. Easy. You may see a blurry image of my coat sleeve, or whatever body part that passes the lens, but nothing to identify me as the subject.

If you need verification yourself, set up a nice new expensive game cam and simply walk in front of it about 12 inches from the lens, or avoid it altogether by walking past it on the backside.

As I've said before, nobody knows for certain why game cams don't capture Bigfoot. Every opinion put forth is speculation. We all have theories though.
Chris B.

 

[Mudcat]

If you don't mind, can you give me the link to the Bill Gates donate button on my website? I remember doing that somewhere as a joke in 2010, but I can't seem to find it for deletion? Thanks, Chris B.

So you don't even know your own website?

 

[Resume]

As I've said before, nobody knows for certain why game cams don't capture Bigfoot. Every opinion put forth is speculation. We all have theories though.
Chris B.

There are whole bunches of people who know for certain.