Seeing Cryptids: The Problems

[carlitos]

Here is the thermal we were using.

[qimg]https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRCxmbyyypGQ88sSR2MImeRdjYXygUc5bIMPG9_sgwMuL7DgNdGtA[/qimg]

See the right side with the screw cap covering the batteries, that is why it took me several minutes to get them changed.

I don't believe you. Several minutes? Give me a break.

 

[William Parcher]

The corn pile might behave (spread) differently if it was loose corn kernels vs. complete ears and that was one of the reasons why I asked.

 

[Resume]

Bizarre. Hard to make sense of the statement. The cache is supposedly in the woods.

This pile here has a diameter about six times the height:

[qimg]http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/7184/598/1600/corn-pile.jpg[/qimg]

That would make it more than 36 feet across. Using the volume of a cone formula:

= pi (rsquared)(H/3) = 2035 cubic feet. At $3.50 per bushel and 2.5 cubic feet per bushel that is almost $3,000.00 in corn and weighs about 57,000 lbs.

I have a big dump truck. 14 yards. That's over five dump truck loads. Getting that into the woods is going to take an army, since it can't be delivered into the woods by truck.

The corn pile might behave (spread) differently if it was loose corn kernels vs. complete ears and that was one of the reasons why I asked.

Assuming for the moment that NL isn't just making the entire story up, I think that it's likely he's exaggerating the height of the corn pile. I'd ask about the overall mass of the pile but that would be subject to perhaps more exaggeration. It would be helpful if he had a photo, but then you'd have to wonder about provenance.

However, if this six-foot pile of corn were an actual footie food stash, there would be sign of ole foo coming and going. There would have to be. Trackways, hair, scat, you name it. Or did he forget to look. This is why I ask him if he considers these little trips of his to be research; mostly, he doesn't seem to be very good at it.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

The corn pile might behave (spread) differently if it was loose corn kernels vs. complete ears and that was one of the reasons why I asked.

It's going to be worse with cobs. A larger base diameter required. Anything rounded is harder to stack.

You want edged faces to stack better. Compare railroad gravel with same-sized rounded material like river gravels. I was pit boss for a season, making everything from huge cobble for the largest mine in the state here, down to concrete sand.

We had to manufacture the railroad gravel for the Alaska Railroad with a machine that cut sharp faces so the gravel could stack higher and support the weight of trains instead of just melting away like rounded materials would do. Same thing with road building. If you are using rounded material like pit run gravels then it MUST have dirt. Otherwise the vehicles just swim in the rounded gravels. If you are laying down edged materials you don't need dirt because it will support the vehicles.

Just try to stack basketballs six feet high. lol. Might take a mile-wide base, or at least some gigantic figure.

 

[William Parcher]

If deer or other animals had been feeding on the pile it would get shorter. Maybe it started out as 8 feet high and had already been reduced to 6 feet.

 

[HarryHenderson]

...Back to this extremely odd statement:

I've indicated on multiple occasions that we have notified the local DNR officer of our expeditions and they do not care.

What on earth is the purpose of calling the local DNR officer? To ask if he cares?! This is actually what was asked of him? lol.

Fascinating: not asking him his opinion about bigfoot populations or the best place to look for them, but whether looking for imaginary animals is illegal?...

That's so funny!

Good friend Todd: "Umm yeah, we're gonna be looking for my friend's imaginary dog he lost here 3 weeks ago. Is there any kind of permit we need to get to do that?"

Ranger Rick: "No permit is needed. Our general policy is to allow you to withdraw imaginary animals on the same day of the imaginary animal deposit. In certain instances though you may be delayed in your ability to withdraw said imaginary animals and in those cases you will be allowed to withdraw the imaginary animals by the 15th business day after said delay first occurred. And just a small reminder, if you shoot an imaginary animal it better be with an imaginary gun. Good luck."

Good friend Todd: "Thanks."

 

[carlitos]

Wait, is NL claiming that a pile of corn was something other than a deer feeder? If so, I missed that.

 

[HarryHenderson]

Maybe we need to take a poll. Despite the incessant 'member benefit' reminders he receives here of both the obvious truth and the reasons for such, how many others here actually believe Northern Lights will at some point finally "get it"?

I'm shooting from the hip here, but I'll bet dollars to donuts WGBH still believes he saw a hulking 9x6 F&B Bigfoot in rural Virginia(?).

 

[Mudcat]

This was an excellent example of exactly what 'footers do, thanks: a whole raft of manipulative tactics.

Manipulative how exactly?

Minimization: I am "merely"... relating a story? No you aren't.

Yes, I am. The whole point of the story is to illustrate that people make honest mistakes in identifying Bigfoot or your cryptid of choice. That I told the story in the only way I know how does not give you cart blanche to be so rude.

Secret witnesses are not part of a story and all the pump-priming you did with the five qualifiers is not part of the story. Six actually. The story itself has almost nothing to it.

Question out of curiosity: Even if I were to give out every bit of personal information about Steve would it have changed the circumstances of the story or your reaction to it? His personal information is quite literally unimportant in the grand scheme, however his qualifiers are important. He really should've known better, but apparently humans make mistakes.

Minimizing again. ("Just"). Plus the personal insult.

There was no personal insult intended but if you perceived one believe me when I say you earned it. But you really are making too big a deal out of an allegory.

Busted: There is no deer season open in August in Indiana.

And? That was the tale as told to me, and I do believe I said "It might have been at" before answering "Where was it?".

You are telling a tale.

No ****** You don't say!?! I guess I should have said I was relaying a tale as told to me. Oh wait! I did!

Incredible. You just dismissed the very "evidence" you claim supports your assertions.

You mean the evidence that backs up my assertion that people make misidentifications despite your groundless assertion that all witnesses are liars?

You sure don't. Which is why the second statement negates the first. You are not a hunter and have no idea whatsoever about stalking game, yet tell a lifelong hunter he is wrong about it.

You might not be wrong about hunting, but you are wrong about double-takes. Which is what I was talking about.

Take a look in the mirror with the insults above. A defense mechanism for being caught in tale-telling is to attack people's "tone".

It's a perfect blame-the-victim attack: The victim can accept the tale despite all the enormous red flags, or he can point them out and be attacked for his "tone".

Except that I prefaced the tale by saying that I was telling a tale. Your accusations of my being a liar are entirely unwarranted and your tone unnecessarily rude.

 

[EHocking]

It's going to be worse with cobs. A larger base diameter required. Anything rounded is harder to stack....

Not really.

This appears to be about 4ft high?
The height to base ratio seems to be about 2:1
http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp-national/tp-andhrapradesh/say-yes-to-corn/article2353014.ece

 

[LTC8K6]

http://www.alaska.net/~fourwair/06ks03.jpg

There is a typical corn pile for deer.

If we scale that up to 7 feet tall, it would be enormous.

Were the sasquatch expected to stay and feed at the pile, or were they expected to carry some corn away?

Were any cameras monitoring the bigfoot corn mountain?

Does sasquatch completely digest corn? Generally you can still tell in the scat that a creature has been eating corn.

Can a sasquatch even eat deer corn? Seems like it would be nasty for a primate.

 

[LTC8K6]

http://ahunterstales.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/deer-bait.jpg

Another pic of a deer corn pile.

All I can think of is that trying to eat that without the proper teeth, or pots, water, and fire, would be rough.

 

[Resume]

Assuming further that the corn pile was unexplicable in any other way, I would like to know by what metric NL used to determine this was a bigfoot corn cache.

If it were through observations of footie stashing the mash, or of unusually large footprints, or enormous corn-filled turds, shame on him for not documenting such, setting up trail cams, hell, setting up shop until he had the pudding-proof with which to rub on skeptic noses.

You know, I'm going to have to agree with the proponent assertion that bigfoot evidence/sightings/claims are congruent; they indeed are in agreement in their extreme silliness.

 

[William Parcher]

your groundless assertion that all witnesses are liars?

Wow, there it is again.

This is now becoming a phenomenon in itself.

 

[William Parcher]

Assuming further that the corn pile was unexplicable in any other way, I would like to know by what metric NL used to determine this was a bigfoot corn cache.

At this point I can probably say what NL would say...

"I never said that the corn pile was made by a Bigfoot."

"I never said that the tree was broken by a Bigfoot."

"I never said that the GnP candy was thrown by a Bigfoot."

"I never said that the weird recorded sounds were made by a Bigfoot."

 

[swright777]

I've seen it both ways, but there's no sense in going to a lot of work; if it's illegal as in Minnesota, I'd bet most poachers just use ears rather than bothering with feeders. All you need to do is shuck it and set it out. You use it to habituate the deer to feed at a certain ambush point, so you try and give them enough to come back, but not enough to sate them. The images below should help.
https://search.yahoo.com/yhs/search...ts906af118720&p=baiting deer with corn images

The pile of corn NL described could conceivably last awhile, but a larger herd could put the hurt on it. A good way for NL to understand what that corn pile represented would be to ask a DNR officer. I'd bet big money on the reply.

The very last possibility would be a bigfoot corn crib.

ETA: I'd hold out a slim possibility of someone fixing to make shine.

Maybe it was this pile. I think there is a bigfoot skiing near the top.

 

[William Parcher]

I'm not lying.

we've found a cache of corn in a densely wooded region that was almost 6 feet high.

The cache of corn was over six feet high

Whoopsie daisy.

 

[Resume]

Maybe it was this pile. I think there is a bigfoot skiing near the top.
[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_555955436969f1739d.jpg[/qimg]

Footie always struck me as a snowboarder.

 

[Resume]

Whoopsie daisy.

Soon it will be twelve-foot high. With two tons on her.

 

[AlaskaBushPilot]

Manipulative how exactly?

This is called playing dumb. Abusive antisocial tactics keep piling up. See how I can actually NAME your tactics whereas you just have the incessant "you are rude, you are rude, your tone, etc.?"

You can't actually point to something specific other than being caught in your own web here.

That I told the story in the only way I know how does not give you cart blanche to be so rude.

lol. You "only" know how to exaggerate, use silly allegory instead of facts, etc.?

Question out of curiosity: Even if I were to give out every bit of personal information about Steve would it have changed the circumstances of the story or your reaction to it? His personal information is quite literally unimportant in the grand scheme, however his qualifiers are important. He really should've known better, but apparently humans make mistakes.

Rambling, self-contradictory diversion. Personal information is unimportant but personal information is important.

Got it.

There was no personal insult intended but if you perceived one believe me when I say you earned it. But you really are making too big a deal out of an allegory.

I see, so your personal insults are OK because I deserved it for pointing out the enormous holes in your story.

Thanks. Because this is the main objection to 'footery: how it turns you into an antisocial personality. Defending the indefensible.

It is nearly a tautology because defense mechanisms are employed by people when they perceive a threat or harm. Like being exposed for telling tales.

And? That was the tale as told to me, and I do believe I said "It might have been at" before answering "Where was it?".

So what if the story is false? Lol. Disproven so easily too. No hunting season at the time he was supposedly hunting.

You might not be wrong about hunting, but you are wrong about double-takes. Which is what I was talking about.

Thanks: still cannot provide a contradictory example.

One of the other important clues here to personal responsibility for something is the extreme reluctance to own up to it.

When someone ELSE makes such a glaring mistake in lying, it is easy for us to acknowledge it. "I was obviously lied to".

But when it is ourselves, we have a variety of ways to deny and evade. From the same article:

It’s human nature not to implicate ourselves in wrongdoing. This holds true even for liars, who will shy away from dwelling on their deception if possible.

You've come in at around seven out of the ten signals for deception in this article.