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Secular Christmas Music

Check out the HP Lovecraft Historical Society CD's with solstice carols and hymns. And no, they don't say 'christmas' :p
 
I first heard Leonard Cohen's "Halleuluah" as a Christmas carol sung by a youth in the East Side Baptist Church here.
Looking at the lyrics.. which are kinda variable, even Leonard changes them, it's a love song, not a Christmas carol.
Talks about intercourse.. the sexual kind!
The first verses point away from anything Christmasy:
"I heard David played a secret chord
that sounded sweet unto the Lord.
It goes like this
a fourth, a fifth, a minor fall, a major lift"
.
And then comes the part that separates out the holy stuff...
"But you don't really care for music, do you."
.
And the BDSM, "she bound you to the kitchen chair"...
And "I was moving in you."
.
That ain't holy!
.
But overall, I like Christmas music... I've heard it for over 70 years, and grown accustomed to it. :)
 
The "BDSM" part is not BDSM but metaphor, about Sampson & Delilah. "She cut your hair" = "She took away your power".
 
alfaniner said:
Can it be called "secular" if it has the word "Christmas" in it? :)
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I wondered if mine would be fitting given the thread title. But I figured since they discuss robbing Santa Claus and reading letters from prison inmates no one would consider them "overly religious".
 
Well, there are the classics--such as "Grandma Got Runover by a Reindeer". "Most Wonderful Time of the Year" isn't, to my recollection, religious. Mom always listend to Dean Martin while baking Christmas cookies, so that's always reminded me of the season (and date rape, if you listen carefully).

Then there's Weird Al's stuff. "The Night Santa Went Crazy" and "Christmas At Ground Zero" spring to mind.

If you want something that's actually pleasant, Enya's got a winter/Christmas themed album with a lot of secular songs on it. I forget the name of it...."Trains and Winter Rains" is the song who's title I actually remember.
 
Delvo said:
The "BDSM" part is not BDSM but metaphor, about Sampson & Delilah. "She cut your hair" = "She took away your power".
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I think it's still David...
"You saw her bathing on the roof
Her beauty in the moonlight overthrew you."
It brings up the subject of adultery and murder which aren't part of many Christmas carols.
 
zooterkin said:
Me too, I thought at first it was the "obvious choice" referred to in the OP, but I don't think you can get sick of anything with Kirsty MacColl in. :)
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I don't think I've ever heard that one before. The "obvious choice" I referred to was the John Lennon song "Happy Xmas (War is over)" ...

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It's a pretty good song, but I've heard it far too many times on the radio and TV.

ETA: Although, I hadn't seen the official video for it before now. I can understand why they don't tend to show it, it's not very Christmassy.

alfaniner said:
Can it be called "secular" if it has the word "Christmas" in it? :)
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It can be if "Christmas" isn't being used literally to refer to Christ's Mass.

I wonder what else we can call it? Can't call it Solstice, because due to changes in the calender over the centuries Solstice is about a week before. Can't call it Yuletide, because that's also a religious festival, so you'd still be naming it after a religious day of celebration. How about Midwinter Festival? (Although, that doesn't really work for those of us in the Southern hemisphere.)
 
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In commercial music, things often aren't what they seem, as many songs can and do have hidden meanings. How can we be sure that an apparently 'non-religious' Christmas song does not have any hidden religious undertones? (beware of anything 'secular' when a religious group/person is behind it, it may be a baited hook) Having non-Christian origins, Christmas could in some ways be considered a secular holiday. But as there are many observant Christians out there (especially in country music) how can we be sure that any given Christmas song is not either overtly or covertly religious?

I would probably split the 'traditional' Christmas songs into two categories:

1. Christmas songs composed by Christians

2. Christmas songs composed by Jews

The "Jewish" Christmas songs as a whole seem to be a lot more secular in nature -- often completely secular, I'd say -- and this group would be the primary one we tend to associate with 20th century pop culture.

Unless maybe I'm wrong and there were actually Jews who wrote Christmas songs with lines like "Born is the King of Israel" or "Christ the savior"?

Keeping in mind that in pop music, a lot of songs have hidden meanings, I think it's safe to assume that any Christmas songs written by Mel Torme, Irving Berlin, or other prominant Jewish song writers probably does not have any sort of subliminal religious undertones -- assuming that such things even exist in the first place.


(I just came from a forum where people were discussing songs (as well as band names like Steely Dan) from years ago that had covert and often-shocking meanings. Maybe my paranoia is getting to the point that I don't trust anything anymore)
 
chainlink said:
...
Keeping in mind that in pop music, a lot of songs have hidden meanings, I think it's safe to assume that any Christmas songs written by Mel Torme, Irving Berlin, or other prominant Jewish song writers probably does not have any sort of subliminal religious undertones -- assuming that such things even exist in the first place.


...)
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Leonard Cohen :)
 
chainlink said:
In commercial music, things often aren't what they seem, as many songs can and do have hidden meanings. How can we be sure that an apparently 'non-religious' Christmas song does not have any hidden religious undertones? (beware of anything 'secular' when a religious group/person is behind it, it may be a baited hook) Having non-Christian origins, Christmas could in some ways be considered a secular holiday. But as there are many observant Christians out there (especially in country music) how can we be sure that any given Christmas song is not either overtly or covertly religious?
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Why would a "Christmas" song need to be covertly religious? Are they hiding below Rome in the catacombs and need to get secret messages out? It's a Christmas song... whatever... It can be religious and appeal to the people who like the little baby jeebus idea or it can be about shopping and snowflakes and hanging out with the posse which is what more secular-minded individuals think of when we think of the holidays.


I would probably split the 'traditional' Christmas songs into two categories:

1. Christmas songs composed by Christians

2. Christmas songs composed by Jews

The "Jewish" Christmas songs as a whole seem to be a lot more secular in nature -- often completely secular, I'd say -- and this group would be the primary one we tend to associate with 20th century pop culture.

Unless maybe I'm wrong and there were actually Jews who wrote Christmas songs with lines like "Born is the King of Israel" or "Christ the savior"?
Click to expand...

Since most Christmas Carols (religious songs) were written in the 19th century, it's highly unlikely that they were written by Jews. Even the few that are by "unknown", like Away in a Manger... What would be the motivation? There was no recording or movie industry and the rights to a song were of dubious value.

I can only think of one 20th Century relgious-themed song that's popular - Little Drummer Boy. All the other standards from Tin Pan Alley (where you'd get the rush of popular Jewish composers in the 20th century) are secular.

Keeping in mind that in pop music, a lot of songs have hidden meanings, I think it's safe to assume that any Christmas songs written by Mel Torme, Irving Berlin, or other prominant Jewish song writers probably does not have any sort of subliminal religious undertones -- assuming that such things even exist in the first place.


(I just came from a forum where people were discussing songs (as well as band names like Steely Dan) from years ago that had covert and often-shocking meanings. Maybe my paranoia is getting to the point that I don't trust anything anymore)
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Um... I'd go with the paranoia thing. Bob Dylan famously got so pissed off about people asking him "What's the Message?" that he told the Playboy interviewer ('66?) that he wanted to do a real Message Song to satisfy those people who needed to look for them. He was going to hire Carnegie Hall and get twenty Western Union delivery men to sing real "messages" like "Not coming Friday STOP Be there next week STOP". You're possibly conflating "subliminal" with "interpretation". Lyrics are poems and can be interpreted variously. That doesn't mean that they're subliminal.
 
Totally unoriginal I know but "I Believe in Father Christmas" by Greg Lake, first single I bought on my own (with a Xmas present, a record voucher, from my Granny).
 
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