Secessionist conspiracies

[Alferd_Packer]

Well, I was in the southeast of the state.

A troll, eh?*















* this coming from a Fiby

 

[SDC]

"Fiby"? And Troll refers to resident of Southeast Lower Michigan?? All I found for Fiby was this: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiby, which appears to be an Urwald. This may illustrate an interesting point; namely, that the proposed "victim" of the secession movement (say, a resident of the existing political entity) is completely unaware of the secessionist or separatist movement and its demands. Which irritates the secessionists/ separatists no end.

 

[dudalb]

I think I replied to a post just like this moments ago. Maybe I'm having DejaVu.

But in reference to the far left granola wannabeChe lefties teaming up with the far right "Oh we're not racist, we hate all non-whites equally" white supremacists (in association with the reverse vampires and the saucer people) I believe they're setting up their own version of a Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

That is what I have been saying about the alliance between the extreme Left and Islamic Fundamentalists. The extremes of the political spectrum often can make a truce and a temporary..very temporary alliance...to go after the political center,since they hate the political center more then they hate each other.
As for the Secessionists conspiracy,one statement; It's has been tried before,and did'nt work.

 

[geni]

Edited to get at the question I want to ask.

Your last comment suggests an interesting history behind the existence of the separate soccer teams. Please advise or refer. A seemingly trivial concession to Scottish sporting opinion? A way to stack the odds so some UK team would have a better chance in international competition? Or a way to give the English team serious competition, decades ago when international soccer was relatively new? Or just some random decision that someone made without considering consequences. (This last being perhaps the most frequent and powerful element in politics.)

The the early days of football there was no one else to play so devideing GB up into it's various constitent countries was a fairly logical aproach. First England Scotland game resulted in a nil-nil.

 

[geni]

The SNP believe in home rule for Scots

Scotland is a country not a region or section of society,

Constitutionaly that is correct.

it should, and will be, independant again one day

There will never be violence used to achieve this and it is not for racist or bigotted reasons

We already have a majority in our own assembly

If you do not vote SNP you are voting for an English party

British party. There is an English party around but it doesn't run in Scotland.

Quite how you managed to conclude that the Scottish Socialist Party is an English party I'm not sure.

 

[geni]

I know there is strong support for the SNP, but I don't know really what it means. Does the general movement believe in staying somehow in or tied to the UK, or complete independence in larger framework of the European community? How much is it just a protest vote, to tick off the English or register dislike for Blair/ Brown/ the Queen?

Couple of percent maybe. There is a fairly solid 30% who want independence.

How deep is it? How wide but shallow? Can we expect violence, as in Ireland? I see you say not, but what if it is somehow frustrated? Is there a pro-violence element on the movement's fringe, even of the AJ-rhetoric variety?

Not of any significance. The ethinic devide in scotland is less tied indepdence and haven't killed each other that often.

I always found it interesting that in (some?) international supporting events Wales and Scotland, at least, have representation separate from England. I first encountered that in following international soccer/ football. I suppose that has a non-political history, in some way, at least.

Basicaly games were invented in what was then GB and when there was a slight initial shortage of teams to play against spliting up into consitent countries made sense.

 

[fitzgibbon]

Well, it isn't like the New England states haven't thought about secession before. I mean, War of 1812 wasn't exactly popular in those parts. In fact, who do you think kept the Canada's fed?

 

[geni]

Complete independence as was had before the act of union

You mean economical entirly dependant on England not getting anoyed with you?

its not a movement its a real political party with a majority administration in scotland

Minoritory. Holds less than 50% total seats. If the lib dems were not currently rather opposed to working with labour in a minority administration (would rather work with the conservatives in Wales) the SNP could be removed from office tomorrow.

 

[Madalch]

Canada may have dodged the bullet as the Quebecois seem to have settled down, though I found it noteworthy that the Inuits (? which exact nation?) threatened secession from Quebec if Quebec seceded, last time the vote came up.

That would be the Cree.

There are also some western separatists (Alberta's got so much oil money at the moment, they "obviously" don't need the rest of the country), and Newfoundland separatists, and I've seen the website of some Ontario separatists.

My own personal feeling is that most of these groups simply think that Quebec's gotten lots of concessions from the federal government by threatening to leave, why can't the rest of us play the same game?

 

[8den]

first ever international soccer teams, so seperate, always will be

The Scottish always pride themselves on their "Support Scotland, and then anyone who's playing aganist England" attutide. But, they've no idea how deep the anti England sentiment runs in Ireland.

Lets put it this way.

If England were playing a race of aliens, and the fate of mankind was held in the balance?

We'd be neutral.

Grudginly.

 

[geni]

The Scottish always pride themselves on their "Support Scotland, and then anyone who's playing aganist England" attutide. But, they've no idea how deep the anti England sentiment runs in Ireland.

Lets put it this way.

If England were playing a race of aliens, and the fate of mankind was held in the balance?

We'd be neutral.

Grudginly.

The english press on the other hand would be full of talk about our old footballing rivals the aliens from vega.

 

[Dave Rogers]

If England were playing a race of aliens, and the fate of mankind was held in the balance?

Unlikely, because England would already have lost in the quarter-final.

Dave

 

[flameowl]

My questions to the quebec seperatists that I have known (or, more correctly their children, as I don't speak French, the real seperatists won't speak to me...) have always been; will you leave with only what you came with? (a stretch of land only a few hundred km wide around the St. Lawrence river), what monetary unit will you use? (since you're leaving Canada, we'd like our money back please), how do you justify being allowed the use of things that you did not enter the union with? (land, money, infrastructure provided by Canada), do you realize that Quebec is a net "have not" province, supported by the "have" provinces of BC, Alberta and Ontario? (what will you do about the large deficit that would be accrued trying to set yourself up while the rest of the country saves money by you not taking it?)

I never once got anything more than a blank stare to those... I doubt you'd get anything else from other "seperatists". They want all the benefits of a long established country, without being beholden to that country... never gonna fly...

 

[Pardalis]

Learn a little about the History of Canada first, and then take it to politics, this is the CT subforum.

 

[Sword_Of_Truth]

There are also some western separatists (Alberta's got so much oil money at the moment, they "obviously" don't need the rest of the country),...

Like I keep telling my friends outside the province, we're gonna be like Saudi Arabia... only with better skiing and no death penalty for having a beer or watching girl-on-girl porn.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Bart: OK, it's not _painfully_ clear the adults are _definitely_
paving the way for an invasion by the saucer people.

Milhouse: You fool! Can't you see it's a massive government conspiracy?
Or have they gotten to you too?
[he and Bart start wrestling]

Lisa: Hey! Hey, hey, stop it! Stop it! Why are you guys jumping
to such ridiculous conclusions? Haven't you ever heard of
Occam's Razor? "The simplest explanation is probably the
correct one."

Bart: [condescending] So what's the simplest explanation?

Lisa: I don't know. Maybe they're all reverse vampires and they
have to get home before dark.

Everyone: Aah! Reverse vampires! Reverse vampires!

Actually I think their conclusion was more fitting....

Milhouse: The Rand Corporation, in conjuction with the saucer people...
Bart: Thank you.
Milhouse: ...under the supervision of the reverse vampires...
Lisa: Ugh...
Milhouse: ...are forcing our parents to go to bed early in a fiendish plot to eliminate the meal of dinner!

 

[funk de fino]

Constitutionaly that is correct.

I know thats why i posted it

British party. There is an English party around but it doesn't run in Scotland

I should have said English based and run and I am posting from an SNP viewpoint as I am a nationalist. I do not recognise GB as my country or that my country should be part of it. They call themselves the Scottish Labour and the Scottish Tories so they cannot claim to be British. What I am saying is they are not a real Scottish Party to a nationalist

Quite how you managed to conclude that the Scottish Socialist Party is an English party I'm not sure.

I am talking real parties not Tommy Sheridans plaything (till he was ousted) although on a technicality and for pedantics, I give you this one

I like a lot of their supposed ideas and policies but they are mostly kooks and spoil it with 3 stupid policies for every one good one IMO

 

[funk de fino]

Couple of percent maybe. There is a fairly solid 30% who want independence.

And its on the rise year on year. It is also on the rise in England, more english want scots independance than ever before (well at least since 1967 after wembley

 

[funk de fino]

You mean economical entirly dependant on England not getting anoyed with you?

I do not understand this at all? Are you saying Scotland is not a country who has a feasible economic future on its own? Dependant on England?

If so, you are uninformed

Minoritory. Holds less than 50% total seats. If the lib dems were not currently rather opposed to working with labour in a minority administration (would rather work with the conservatives in Wales) the SNP could be removed from office tomorrow.

Pedantic, I was trying to explain to someone not in the know, from abroad that we had the largest amount of seats of any party in the Scottish assembly and were not just a movement but a political party. If they were removed they would just get back in again in the event of a re-election.

In the case of Labour and the Libs or the Tories forming an English coalition to take control of the Assembly, then this would show you why there can be an antagonism towards Westminster. Democracy at work right enough

In any true democracy it is up to the people to make the decisons and choices. They choose the SNP. The SNP say they will give the Scottish people the chance to vote on whether or not they want Independance in a nationwide referendum. This is not a law forced on the people it is the chance to vote for the idea.

We all know what happens next. The English based parties all join together to stop this choice being delivered to the people of Scotland. They do not believe we are capable of deciding our own destiny.

It's truly pathetic

 

[funk de fino]

Unlikely, because England would already have lost in the quarter-final.

Dave

Quality

They would also have had a player sent off which would give them a feeble excuse