Scottish Citizenship - who should get it?

[Thunder]

only those scottish who are presbyterian and born in scotland. the rest are trash.

 

[Gravy]

I can't believe no one's said this yet, so here goes.

Scottish Citizenship - who should get it?

True Scotsmen, of course.

 

[Giz]

No word yet from any Scots who support Independance? Are they happy with the SNP definition? Does it go far enough/too far?

 

[Architect]

5) Gaelic speakers? (Ok - Joke!)

Uill, tha mise ghaidhlig agus tha ghaidhlig asgamsa. Ach tha beurla agam ceudeuchd. 'S math sin.

 

[Architect]

No word yet from any Scots who support Independance? Are they happy with the SNP definition? Does it go far enough/too far?

Everyone resident in Scotland, of Scots birth or parentage, and the spouses/children thereof.

As for dual citizenship, one would presumably adopt the post independence Irish model whereby anyone born before independence can hold both.

 

[plumjam]

Every seriously ginger person on the planet.

 

[Architect]

Gaelic and ginger! Make me First Minister now!

 

[Fnord]

0) Anyone willing to die for Free Scotland.

-1 through 8-

9) Anyone who can play anything other than 'Amazing Grace' on the scotspipes.

11) Anyone who can give a five-minute speach on any three of the following topics:

- Ewen MacGregor
- Mel Gibson
- Jim White
- Oor Wullie
- Dougie Donnelly
- Billy Connolly
- Archie McPherson
- Grandpa Broon
- Gavin Hastings
- Robbie Coltraine
- Rab C. Nesbitt
- High Road
- Bill Paterson
- The Krankies
- Robert Carlyle

 

[Rolfe]

The SNP's position seems to be "The automatic right of citizenship will be open by right to all those living in Scotland, all those born in Scotland, and all those with a parent born in Scotland" (From: http://www.scotsindependent.org/features/talking6.htm)

I support this position.

My gut feeling is that it should be open to anyone with UK citizenship at the time of independence who wants to apply for it, but that does get more tricky as regards the dual nationality thing, because you might get hordes of people with no Scottish connection and no intention of acquiring one just signing on the line as a no-down-side insurance policy. I admit I don't know the legalities of dual nationality.

In fact the policy position is pretty close to the above, because all anyone would have to do to gain eligibility would be to move house to Scotland in time for whatever cut-off date was set. There doesn't seem to be any stipulation on length of residency.

Scotland is underpopulated. Partly as a result of economic migration in the 18th and 19th centuries, and partly (mainly, in the northern counties) as a result of the attempted genocide which occurred at the same time. And there has been insufficient inward investment since then to build the population up again.

[So much for the Union Dividend, by the way, note that all this occurred after 1707.]

I listened to an account by someone who had lived in Norway, which really struck me. He said that the landscape was very similar to northern Scotland, but what was striking was the frequency with which a walker encountered villages and other habitation in the glens. He then realised that if you walk in Scotland in similar areas, and look in the geographical spots that correspond to the villages in Norway, you find the grass-covered foundations of the cleared habitations.

One of my hopes for independence is targeted investment to make these glens viable, productive communities once again. But for that you need people, people committed to the future of Scotland. Encouraging the diaspora to come home, and New Scots to commit to Scotland, is an important part of this. And as we know, a significant proportion of the New Scots are of English origin.

Rolfe.

 

[Rolfe]

8) Those who don't put sugar on their porridge.

I've never understood the attraction of sugar on one's porridge. An English friend tried to explain it to me. He said that oatmeal is neutral, like rice, and it can go either way depending on how you prepare it. So, you can have savoury rice with a meat dish, or sweet rice pudding.

I understood that analogy, because as a child my entire exposure to rice was as rice pudding, and the delectations of savoury rice weren't discovered until someone fed me a Chinese takeaway some time in about 1978.

But the idea of sugar on porridge still gies me the boak.

Maybe I should start a poll. Should I put sugar on my porridge the morn's morn just to try it? If I do that, do I salt it while it's cooking? I guess not?

Rolfe.

 

[Piscivore]

Only those too cheap to pay the filing fee for the paperwork.

 

[Darat]

History posts moved to new thread: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113338

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Darat

 

[Nick Bogaerts]

I think the easiest would be to allow any (current) British Citizen otherwise than by descent to choose to either become Scottish or stay British, and to grant indeterminate leave to remain to any Scottish citizen living in what's left of the Union and to any British citizen living in Scotland.

Any (current) British Citizen by descent could at any time decide to register either as a Scottish or a British citizen.

That way, anyone feeling more attachment to Scotland than to the Union would be Scottish, and the rest of us would keep our British citizenship, and those who care to be neither (British/Scottish citizens by descent) don't get to be hassled with paperwork.

The only ones to be screwed would be those who feel a strong attachment to both Scotland and the Union. Presumably those people would have voted against independence.

Personally, I'm glad I'm not afflicted with any form of patriotism.

 

[Darat]

In a related question: what about those people currently UK citizens but live in Scotland but do not want to become a citizen of the new Scotland? Should the other new country automatically grant them citizenship?

 

[ddt]

Re: Nick and Darat:

Let's presume that both the rest-UK remains a EU member and Scotland becomes one - which is the most likely scenario.

The issue of residency then is completely moot, IMHO: the EU rules state that any EU citizen may reside in any other EU country, without any conditions of the host country.

 

[Darat]

But when new members join the EU existing Members can usually introduce "transition" limits.... could be a lot of ex-UK citizens not being able to take up jobs in the EU for a while

 

[Rolfe]

I think you're mistaken when you assume that Scotland will "join" the EU. Scotland is already a member of the EU. And if the UK breaks up, then there is no compelling reason in the minds of EU officials why the two new political entities should be treated differently from each other. English commentators often speak of England/Wales/NI inheriting the UK membership and Scotland joining or rejoining, but that is not necessarily how it is viewed by Europeans.

There is also the simple pragmatism of most of Europe's oil, a substantial chunk of its fishing grounds and a lot of other useful resources just happening to be located in Scottish territory. How will the Spanish fishing fleet like it if they're told that they won't have access to Scottish waters until the EU graciously allows Scotland to "join"? (Actually that's the first thing that needs re-negotiating, but it won't even be up for negotiation unless Scotland is actually a member.)

The most probable convenient fudge will be that both new states are deemed to continue their existing membership.

Rolfe.

 

[ddt]

But when new members join the EU existing Members can usually introduce "transition" limits.... could be a lot of ex-UK citizens not being able to take up jobs in the EU for a while

Apparently it is possible; but I think it only happened w.r.t. Poland with the extension to the 25, and then only by some EU countries (Germany, Netherlands) and not by all. In the case of a Scottish independence, it would be very strange if a Scot would not have the same rights he had before as a British citizen - I'd guess the judges in Luxembourg would see it likewise.

I think you're mistaken when you assume that Scotland will "join" the EU. Scotland is already a member of the EU. And if the UK breaks up, then there is no compelling reason in the minds of EU officials why the two new political entities should be treated differently from each other. English commentators often speak of England/Wales/NI inheriting the UK membership and Scotland joining or rejoining, but that is not necessarily how it is viewed by Europeans.

Would Scottish independence be framed as a dissolution of the Act of the Union of 1707? In that case you'd have a split of the UK into two equal parts. Those two parts then both inherit international obligations, unless otherwise specified.

And I could see no reason why the EU would not have Scotland as a member. It is, logically, already up to all requirements for it.

BTW, thanks for all the posts on this issue - we don't get much exposure to it over here.

 

[Lord Muck oGentry]

Every seriously ginger person on the planet.

Some of my best friends, relatives and whiskers are ginger.
But there are limits to tolerance.

 

[geni]

I think you're mistaken when you assume that Scotland will "join" the EU. Scotland is already a member of the EU. And if the UK breaks up, then there is no compelling reason in the minds of EU officials why the two new political entities should be treated differently from each other. English commentators often speak of England/Wales/NI inheriting the UK membership and Scotland joining or rejoining, but that is not necessarily how it is viewed by Europeans.

That may be their view but under internal conventions it would be highly questionable. Joint successor state status would cost scotland a bit over £300 billion. About 6 times it's GDP. I don't think that level of debt is sustainable.

There is also the simple pragmatism of most of Europe's oil, a substantial chunk of its fishing grounds and a lot of other useful resources just happening to be located in Scottish territory. How will the Spanish fishing fleet like it if they're told that they won't have access to Scottish waters until the EU graciously allows Scotland to "join"? (Actually that's the first thing that needs re-negotiating, but it won't even be up for negotiation unless Scotland is actually a member.)

British waters. Scotland isn't a signitory to the relivant treaties. In any case Norway is not an EU member so would be unlikely to consider any EU membership of scotland to be a matter of importance.