Split Thread Scorpion's Spiritualism

[Scorpion]

But suffering is part of spiritual evolution right Scorpion? Isn't that what you said? Don't the Angels of Karma decide what is best for the evolution of a spirit by hand picking an incarnation with the experiences (good and bad) that the Angel thinks the spirit needs to evolve further?

So now you're suggesting that there are spirits that are saving other spirits in their current incarnations from suffering? This same suffering that the Angels of Karma knew that these spirits needed to evolve?

Are you saying that the Angels of Karma don't know what they are doing and prescribe an incarnation for a spirit that has too MUCH suffering and don't realize it, but these rogue spirits do?

Explain this please.

I have said there is more than one way to pay karmic debts. If the soul has done bad things in past lives they are accountable and may face suffering, not so much as direct punishment but by way of making the soul develop more empathy for others.
But a soul can turn their karma around by working for the good. instead of continuing to be harmful.

I believe the spirit world mitigates our suffering if it can, but it cannot always change the mind of an errant selfish soul committing bad actions. We are not abandoned to chaos by the angels of karma. Everything eventually works for a higher purpose. Bad action leads to karma that shapes our future experiences

Suffering may be unpleasant, but it forces change in the soul when little else would.

 

[Gamolon]

I think if the spirits can save people from suffering, and still stay within the laws of karma they will do it.

So explain this dilemma you've created...

Believe it or not the spirit world say that there are another species of beings we call angels that never incarnate and some of them are angels of karma.They have the final say in our evolution, and decide what experiences we need for our soul to progress. They are not concerned if that experience is harsh as they know it will all be for the ultimate good.

I think if the spirits can save people from suffering, and still stay within the laws of karma they will do it.

According to your above statements, the Karma Angel's decision is being undermined by rogue spirits and incarnations on earth are being screwed out of the needed suffering that was determined as being needed by the Karma Angels themselves.

Is that right?

 

[Pixel42]

It has been said you can work off your karma by other methods than just suffering. Maybe that is what I am trying to do by talking about spiritualism all over the internet, and maybe that is why the spirit world were allowed to give me the money to buy a computer. It is because they knew I would try to do this.

I hate to tell you this but if this is true, and the idea was for you to "work off your karma" by spreading belief in spiritualism, the amount of karma you've worked off so far is approximately none at all.

 

[JayUtah]

We are not abandoned to chaos by the angels of karma

But we are. When we asked for a set of extrinsic rules by which the spirit world ostensibly operates, you tried to give us some. Then when we pointed out the inconsistency, absurdity, and contradiction in what you told us, you first tried to rehabilitate your claim by proposing a bunch of ad hoc exceptions to the rules. Then you up and admitted that whatever happens in any given moment is simply whatever your Karma Kops say at the time. That was specifically an explanation for why the proposed operation of the spirit world doesn't seem to obey a clear, consistent set of rules. In other words, why the operation of the spirit world is evidently chaotic. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Gamolon]

I have said there is more than one way to pay karmic debts. If the soul has done bad things in past lives they are accountable and may face suffering, not so much as direct punishment but by way of making the soul develop more empathy for others.
But a soul can turn their karma around by working for the good. instead of continuing to be harmful.

I believe the spirit world mitigates our suffering if it can, but it cannot always change the mind of an errant selfish soul committing bad actions. We are not abandoned to chaos by the angels of karma. Everything eventually works for a higher purpose. Bad action leads to karma that shapes our future experiences

Suffering may be unpleasant, but it forces change in the soul when little else would.

There's a problem there Scorpion.

According to you, an Angel of Karma KNOWS the experiences (good and bad) a particular incarnation on earth will provide a spirit and that is why the Angel picks it for that spirit.

If the Angel of Karma KNOWS the spirit will experience certain suffering, then the Angel also knows when that suffering is caused by other incarnated spirits. That means that certain incarnated spirits are doomed to suffer hits to their karma that they cannot control. They're pawns in a massive predetermined game with known outcomes.

How is that "free will" or being able to "choose one's path"?

Here's an example.

An Angel of Karma chose an incarnation for a spirit where the Angel knew that spirit would suffer massive pain and humiliation due to one of Hitler's subordinates, but the dispassionate Angel knew it needed it. An Angel HAD to have sent a spirit into whichever of Hitler's subordinate would cause that pain and humiliation knowing what it would do so because, for whatever reason, THAT spirit needed THAT experience.

 

[Gamolon]

If the soul has done bad things in past lives

But certain souls doing bad things in past lives have NO CHOICE in the matter because the powers that be in the spirit world NEED certain souls to cause suffering to other souls that NEED to experience said suffering in order to progress up the spiritual evolution ladder.

 

[Scorpion]

I hate to tell you this but if this is true, and the idea was for you to "work off your karma" by spreading belief in spiritualism, the amount of karma you've worked off so far is approximately none at all.

I don't just do this here, I have been all over the internet like a rash since the world trade center attack. Both promoting spiritualism and criticizing the Quran. I usually use the name Dajjal.

 

[Scorpion]

So explain this dilemma you've created...




According to your above statements, the Karma Angel's decision is being undermined by rogue spirits and incarnations on earth are being screwed out of the needed suffering that was determined as being needed by the Karma Angels themselves.

Is that right?

Suffering is not for sufferings sake, it is to force changes in the soul. As I said suffering is not just a punishment, it makes people more aware of the feelings of others. I think the angels of karma oversee what the spirit world is allowed to do, and spiritual healing is allowed where possible.

If a soul learns its lessons and becomes more compassionate because of its suffering, then it was all for the ultimate good.

 

[Gamolon]

Suffering is not for sufferings sake, it is to force changes in the soul.

Right.

And souls are needed to CAUSE suffering unto other souls the NEED it. How is that free will? How is that being given a choice in the matter? The Karma Angels know exactly what suffering will be experienced by soul in a certain incarnation.

Bottom line is that you are saying that certain souls are incarnated for the purpose to cause suffering unto other souls who need to experience it and thus are FORCED to obtain massive hits to their karma.

 

[Darat]

It is up to the hierarchy of the spirit world to decide what is allowed and what is not. They allow subtle help but not direct interference .
I believe many people have been inspired without knowing they were, including me. A medium told me the spirit world inspired me to do a blue and white painting.

That would seem to be you acknowledging that Silver Birch couldn't have been a real spirit giving real advice and knowledge...

 

[Scorpion]

There's a problem there Scorpion.

According to you, an Angel of Karma KNOWS the experiences (good and bad) a particular incarnation on earth will provide a spirit and that is why the Angel picks it for that spirit.

If the Angel of Karma KNOWS the spirit will experience certain suffering, then the Angel also knows when that suffering is caused by other incarnated spirits. That means that certain incarnated spirits are doomed to suffer hits to their karma that they cannot control. They're pawns in a massive predetermined game with known outcomes.

How is that "free will" or being able to "choose one's path"?

Here's an example.

An Angel of Karma chose an incarnation for a spirit where the Angel knew that spirit would suffer massive pain and humiliation due to one of Hitler's subordinates, but the dispassionate Angel knew it needed it. An Angel HAD to have sent a spirit into whichever of Hitler's subordinate would cause that pain and humiliation knowing what it would do so because, for whatever reason, THAT spirit needed THAT experience.

We act and react together over what some spirit guides say is thousands of lives. We cause suffering when we are unevolved, and try to help others as we grow more spiritual. If there is injustice in war it is compensated for in future incarnations. We are on a long journey together. What Herman Hesse described as, the journey to the East. But it ultimately results in all souls being redeemed. We will eventually all be united in a higher realm of existence.

 

[Darat]

I have said there is more than one way to pay karmic debts. If the soul has done bad things in past lives they are accountable and may face suffering, not so much as direct punishment but by way of making the soul develop more empathy for others.But a soul can turn their karma around by working for the good. instead of continuing to be harmful.

I believe the spirit world mitigates our suffering if it can, but it cannot always change the mind of an errant selfish soul committing bad actions. We are not abandoned to chaos by the angels of karma. Everything eventually works for a higher purpose. Bad action leads to karma that shapes our future experiences

Suffering may be unpleasant, but it forces change in the soul when little else would.

Explain how this works for a 3 year child who is tortured, raped and then killed by soldiers.

 

[Scorpion]

Right.

And souls are needed to CAUSE suffering unto other souls the NEED it. How is that free will? How is that being given a choice in the matter? The Karma Angels know exactly what suffering will be experienced by soul in a certain incarnation.

Bottom line is that you are saying that certain souls are incarnated for the purpose to cause suffering unto other souls who need to experience it and thus are FORCED to obtain massive hits to their karma.

They choose to act according to the state of their spiritual evolution. True it is known to the angels of karma that unevolved souls will cause suffering, and thereby reap future bad karma. But as I say this is all working itself out over countless lives. Both on this and other planets. I heard there are many worlds higher in evolutionary status than the earth, and some lower. We incarnate on planets where we will gain the most advancement for our soul at its present state.

 

[Gamolon]

We act and react together over what some spirit guides say is thousands of lives. We cause suffering when we are unevolved, and try to help others as we grow more spiritual. If there is injustice in war it is compensated for in future incarnations. We are on a long journey together. What Herman Hesse described as, the journey to the East. But it ultimately results in all souls being redeemed. We will eventually all be united in a higher realm of existence.

You're deliberately avoiding my point.

If a Karma Angel knows ahead of time how much a soul needs to suffer and how it will suffer, then that same angel KNOWS that there there will be a soul in place to make that other soul suffer.

How is that free will? How is that being given a choice when a soul and it's incarnation are destined to make other souls suffer because they need it?

 

[The Greater Fool]

If we need karma help 'in these desperate times', it seems reincarnation and karma aren't, in fact, improving things as intended.

 

[Scorpion]

Explain how this works for a 3 year child who is tortured, raped and then killed by soldiers.

Your favorite line again. Is that the worst thing you can think of?
Like I say if there is injustice it will be compensated for in future incarnations of that unfortunate soul. They will have beneficial experiences in future lives, that will help heal the damage to their soul.

 

[Gamolon]

They choose to act according to the state of their spiritual evolution. True it is known to the angels of karma that unevolved souls will cause suffering, and thereby reap future bad karma.

Read those two sentences again.

You just proved my point. The Angels KNEW the souls would cause suffering, but THEY chose that incarnation for the soul.

That isn't a soul "CHOOSING to act according" to anything. That's a soul being forced into a roll that has a predetermined outcome.

 

[Scorpion]

You're deliberately avoiding my point.

If a Karma Angel knows ahead of time how much a soul needs to suffer and how it will suffer, then that same angel KNOWS that there there will be a soul in place to make that other soul suffer.

How is that free will? How is that being given a choice when a soul and it's incarnation are destined to make other souls suffer because they need it?

The angels of karma can undoubtedly see into the future, and they know some people are going to do evil. Those evil people may be instrumental in causing suffering that pays some other souls karma.

The bad actions may be predictable but they are still the free choice of the soul. We act and our actions cause reactions. Over countless lives until all karma is settled.

 

[Pixel42]

I don't just do this here, I have been all over the internet like a rash since the world trade center attack. Both promoting spiritualism and criticizing the Quran. I usually use the name Dajjal.

And how many people have you converted to spiritualism by doing this in those 18 years?

 

[The Greater Fool]

And how many people have you converted to spiritualism by doing this in those 18 years?

And how many has he de-converted?