Schwarzenegger's Boorish Behavior

Posted by davefoc

Clancie this is complete, unadulterated crap. Clinton lied by any possible definition of the word. Immediately after he said the above he went on to say that he hadn't been alone with her, eliminating any possible semantic defense. His meaning was exact and exactly a lie. That is why the judge fined him and that is why he lost his license to practice law for a period of time.
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Say, don't get too upset! After all, Clinton's gone! So, let's just agree that he lied. My position at the time about it was the same as it is now--sexual relationships between consenting adults are none of my business. Lies about them are important to the people involved. I'm sure we disagree, but my strong feeling is that Clinton doesn't owe me, as a voter, any accountability (and shouldn't be legally interrogated) about his sex life. That's what I thought then, and what I still think. People continue to disagree about this--vehemently--but Clinton's gone. I kind of hate to refight that battle when it doesn't apply to things today (well, except the question of whether Dems or Republicans are using a double standard for AS).
Repeating this laughable defense suggests that you indeed are using a double standard.
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My other point is that consensual sex between adults is none of my concern. I would feel exactly the same way about Schwarzenegger. Exactly the same.

The problem is that nothing described by 15 women was consensual--and some of it was really quite intimidating, maybe even frightening. He -is- a physically intimidating presence, and if he decided to push you around against your will, I could see being a little worried how far he might be willing to go.
I also agree that mostly anonymous people coming out days before an election are not entirely credible.
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Let's not forget that 10 of the 15 women -have- identified themselves and told their stories publicly.
Personally, I think it more likely than not that Schwarxenegger behaved badly and perhaps may have been guilty of what I suspect would be called misdemeanor sexual battery. I am sorry about that. I am sorry that the person I am voting for is guilty of something like that.
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Yes, davefoc. And I'm sorry to say that after seeing his attitude this weekend, I think you and some of AS's other supporters feel worse about his actions than he does. :(
 
Who exactly would you vote for in this election?
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Actually, I don't know. I don't blame Davis for all the things you do, but I'm also a bit disgusted by all the money wasted in educational testing these past years--a political move, imo, and $$$ that could be better spent elsewhere (like, the classroom).

I didn't like him not firmly disavowing the "Nazi" thing about AS, either. Instead he sort of seemed to embrace it. And his comment that someone who would support Nazism "wasn't a real American" seemed like a real low blow about him being from Austria.

But I also don't like the recall, because Davis was elected a year ago and I think it sets a very bad presedent. It was intended for extreme cases--like criminality--and there's no evidence of anything like the law intended. The voters chose him over Simon and this is a back door way to get Republicans making executive decisions after all, using a charismatic front man, imo. I think its a bad idea to encourage this.

So..."No" on the recall. And....Bustamante's probably okay. I don't see anything worse about taking Indian money legally earned than taking any other corporate donation. (The Morongo Valley Indians had a commercial for McClintock the other day). I'm sure Schwarzenegger has accepted corporate contributions from people who expect a lot more favoritism than the Indians do, since they're pretty much a law unto themselves anyway (and he lied that they don't pay anything to the state, which I didn't think was right to do).

Haven't been impressed by Bustamante, but I'm going to read more info today. Can't vote for McClintock--I don't support a single social policy he advocates, although I also think he's the only one of "the Big 3" who's come out with economic specifics of what he'd do about the deficit.

Guess it's no suprise to you that Schwarzenegger isn't even a "maybe". No experience....not even a "desk job"...not very educated and apparently not even self taught or a "reader" from what I saw on LKL...then the sexual misconduct/bullying/rationalizations....No, he's out on my list.

So, maybe Bustamante. Or maybe I'll throw my vote away symbolically on Cameho, the Green Party candidate. He's got some good ideas and no chance of winning. But isn't that just like casting a vote for Arnold? :confused:

Oh....How many days do we have left again? :rolleyes:
 
Clancie said:
What about Arnold? What's the argument his supporters are making? That these women are making it all up?

I don't see why we'd think they're lying when even AS doesn't totally deny what has been said--nor is he able to distinguish for us which he did and which he did not do, although he denies "some".

So, why should he get a "pass"? Do you think the behavior described just doesn't matter? Or that they're lying? Or do his supporters want a Republican governor so badly that they're willing to look the other way on judging right and wrong when it concerns him?

I hope someone can help out here. I don't understand how these things can just be "dismissed". If 15 women came out to say this about Bustamante, and he couldn't deny it, would you still feel essentially that "it doesn't matter"?
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The problem Clancie is the timing, if this had come out two weeks ago then AS would have time to investigate each of these calms. Now I do not know if all are true or some are true, but to have all this come out so close to the election is nothing but suspicious. If it had come out two weeks ago, and AS had the time to refute the statements, and he could not, then I would not be supporting him.

Many of these are hard to prove, but can be disproved with the proper amount of time. For example it an incident was alleged to have occurred on Feb 2 1988 in LA , and then AS shows he was in London on that day, well what happens to that story?

No the stories came out to close to the election for me to drop all skepticism and jump on the Anti-AS bandwagon.
 
Clancie,

Funny. You spend a lot of posts about Clinton in this thread, but when you are shown to be a hypocrite, you want us to forget all about him.

Very funny.

I also loved your definition of "sex=intercourse". Perhaps you could explain the term "oral sex".
 
Posted by SRW

If it had come out two weeks ago, and AS had the time to refute the statements, and he could not, then I would not be supporting him.
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Thank you, SRW, for giving a coherent reason for continuing to support him while not approving of this behavior, if it is true.

I guess I don't understand, though, what would require a lot of time or research on his part to say, "I never have treated women this way."

For example, if you were AS and had worked with a woman named Tamee Smith on "Predator" wouldn't you be able to say pretty quickly, yes or no, to the following description of what she claims you did to her?

Smith said the encounter occurred after location shooting (on "Predator"), while actors were doing special-effects work in the Los Angeles area. She said Schwarzenegger had appeared at a producer's office on the Fox studio lot, looking for her boss, who was not there. Schwarzenegger said he would wait, according to Smith.

Smith said that when she got up to use the bathroom, Schwarzenegger followed her. She said the two were alone in the office, which she described as a converted bungalow. "I wasn't even all the way in. I don't think the door was closed, and he was right behind me." Smith said.

"He grabbed me from behind with his right hand. He clamped it over my boob and was wrestling with me. He was just basically saying he wanted me and I was saying, 'No, no, no.' "

She said he then asked about her breasts: " 'Are they real? I want to know, are they real?' He wouldn't let go. I fought him. The size of his biceps coming across my chest, they were enormous. I couldn't get away from him at all. It wasn't until I said something about Maria" Shriver, his wife, she said, "that he dropped me, dropped me fast and walked out of the bathroom and out" of the bungalow.

Afterward, she said, she remained in the bungalow and cried. "I was upset," she said. "I was scared. I was all those things. Eventually, my girlfriend came in, and I told her what happened."

That girlfriend, Elaine Thompson, also a crew member on the film, told The Times that Smith was "very shaken."
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Seriously, in Schwarzenegger's position, how difficult (or time consuming) would it be to say, "That is a total and complete lie"? The burden of proof is on the accuser. His comments obviously make it look like he doesn't want to say people are lying if he knows perfectly well that they aren't.
 
Clancie said:



Seriously, in Schwarzenegger's position, how difficult (or time consuming) would it be to say, "That is a total and complete lie"? The burden of proof is on the accuser. His comments obviously make it look like he doesn't want to say people are lying if he knows perfectly well that they aren't.
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He denied three of the four that came out on Sunday, and said he did not know anything about the forth. Again he does not have the time to refute each claim, especially as some may have a degree of truth to them.

As someone who behaved badly during the 70's and 80's I sure would have a hard time recalling all the things that went on in Disco, bars and parties.
 
SRW said:


He denied three of the four that came out on Sunday, and said he did not know anything about the forth. Again he does not have the time to refute each claim, especially as some may have a degree of truth to them.

As someone who behaved badly during the 70's and 80's I sure would have a hard time recalling all the things that went on in Disco, bars and parties.
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But of course you're not running for governor of California, or are you?
Sexual battery is relevent, and he refuses to even answer the question:

http://drudgereport.com/flash1aj.htm
 
"No the stories came out to close to the election for me to drop all skepticism and jump on the Anti-AS bandwagon."

One of the problems with having a lynch mob election. There is actually a benefit to acting with deliberation.
 
subgenius said:

But of course you're not running for governor of California, or are you?
Sexual battery is relevent, and he refuses to even answer the question:

http://drudgereport.com/flash1aj.htm
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Well I have to wait for the next recall to run. Ask me again next week.


Again they are only relevant if true, and recent, at least in my opinion. I did a lot of things back then that I would never dream of doing now, does that make me a bad person? There were lots of things going on then that, while normal for the time, are not acceptable now.
 
subgenius said:
"No the stories came out to close to the election for me to drop all skepticism and jump on the Anti-AS bandwagon."

One of the problems with having a lynch mob election. There is actually a benefit to acting with deliberation.
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Oh I think 11th hour Revelations will always come out not matter how organized the election is.
 
subgenius,

Interesting Jennings interview with AS in your Drudge report link. I thought this part was especially telling:
SCHWARZENEGGER: It doesn't make any sense to go through details here with you.

What is important is--what is important is that I cannot remember what was happening 20 years ago and 15 years ago. But some of the thing sounds like me and this is why I was the first one to come out and say, ``You know, some of the things could have happened.'' I want to apologize to the people if I offended anyone, because that was not my intention.

JENNINGS: Do you think that that's...

SCHWARZENEGGER: ... and I'm sorry.

JENNINGS: ... enough?

SCHWARZENEGGER: I'm sorry about it. Well, let me tell you something, that no one every came to me in my life and said to me that I did anything, then said, ``I don't want you to do that and you went over the line, Arnold.'' Now, all of a sudden, isn't it odd that three days and four days before the campaign, all of a sudden, all these women want to have an apology? Isn't it odd?

JENNINGS: Are you blaming the women?

SCHWARZENEGGER: I mean, you have common sense, Peter. You can figure it out for yourself.

JENNINGS: Are you...

SCHWARZENEGGER: Come on now.

JENNINGS: ... well, no, you figure it out for me.

SCHWARZENEGGER: I mean, no, no, no, no. But I'm just trying to tell you, you know it and I know it.

END
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Not much of a denial of wrongdoing and not much of an apology. (Also how convenient to ignore the events that were alleged from only three years ago. SRW, I don't care about what you did 20 years ago, but if we're talking about 2000, don't count on my vote! :p)

Same old, same old. Blame the victim. Pretty interesting, though, how he tries to rely on the "old boy's network" to get Jenning's complicity in acknowledging this is just how women are and that they're probably making it up for political reasons...but Jennings isn't buying it.

Schwarzenegger is going to find dealing with people on an intellectual basis as governor is not quite the same as the power trip and manipulative advantages of dealing with fans and flunkies first as Mr. Universe and then as an international movie star.
 
Originally posted by Clancie
michaellee (and anyone else who shares the apparent viewpoint that AS did no wrong--there seem to be many!)....

Let's forget about Clinton.
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I at no time stated anything of the sort. My earlier post neither defended nor accused either AS or Clinton; I simply stated facts followed by my interpretation of those facts- looking back I cannot find the "AS did no wrong" comment, nor anything close to that meaning. Apparently not everyone posting read the entire post. And "Let's" forget about Clinton?
CFL took the time to read my earlier post and says it best---

Funny. You spend a lot of posts about Clinton in this thread, but when you are shown to be a hypocrite, you want us to forget all about him.

Very funny.
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At the same time, very sad. It must be nice to post one's opinion so as to illicit a response; get one that you don't like to see, and be able to so easily dismiss it without a thought......
 
Michaellee,

If you find the allegations of sexual harrassment against Clinton so compelling even though they were not proven in court (and, yes, I'd like to see that "long list"), I wonder why you find the much worse testimonials against Schwarzenegger so -apparently-easy to deride and dismiss?
 
Clancie said:
subgenius,

Interesting Jennings interview with AS in your Drudge report link. I thought this part was especially telling:

Not much of a denial of wrongdoing and not much of an apology. (Also how convenient to ignore the events that were alleged from only three years ago. SRW, I don't care about what you did 20 years ago, but if we're talking about 2000, don't count on my vote! :p)
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Like I said it is only relevant if it is true or recent I didn't ignore the 2000 allegation I just do not know if it is true.

Now I know why you believe Clinton, you love to parse words don't you.
 
Clancie said:
Michaellee,

If you find the allegations of sexual harrassment against Clinton so compelling even though they were not proven in court (and, yes, I'd like to see that "long list"), I wonder why you find the much worse testimonials against Schwarzenegger so -apparently-easy to deride and dismiss?
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ARNOLD WINS IN LANDSLIDE!!!!

...oh...sorry....that's tomorrow's post.

-nevermind-

-z
 
Clancie said:
Michaellee,

If you find the allegations of sexual harrassment against Clinton so compelling even though they were not proven in court (and, yes, I'd like to see that "long list"), I wonder why you find the much worse testimonials against Schwarzenegger so -apparently-easy to deride and dismiss?
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Do you really consider a man being a "boor" (your own term") worse than cheating on his wife?
 
CFLarsen said:


Do you really consider a man being a "boor" (your own term") worse than cheating on his wife?
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I would consider grabbing a stranger's breast (assault) worse than consentual sex. Yes.
 
rikzilla said:


ARNOLD WINS IN LANDSLIDE!!!!

...oh...sorry....that's tomorrow's post.

-nevermind-

-z
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And the day after tomorrow:

"Recall Petitions Circulating As Police Investigate Guv. Arnie For Sexual Assaults!"

Those who live by the recall......
 
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