Schwarzenegger's Boorish Behavior

[patnray]

You obviously dont understand.

Well, let's see. He didn't deny the drugs and group sex, just that he didn't remember boasting about it in an interview. I guess if you do enough interviews you forget what you say...

He doesn't deny that he was paid weekly while on a visitor's visa. He claims he can't remember if he was paid weekly or not. One suspects if he was not he would remember enough to refute the story. But he won't release his immigration files to prove it wasn't so...

He doesn't remember groping those particular women. I suppose if one makes a habit of it with women you are only casuallty aquainted with that it would be hard to remember if you groped a particular one.

I do understand that his excuses don't paint him in any better light than his past behaviour.

But perhaps, like Nixon, this is the "New Arnold"....

 

[SRW]

I'm all for the presumption of innocence, too, David James, but when Schwarzenegger himself won't say he is innocent of wrong-doing (yet also won't specify which accusations are true....well, why wouldn't that give his accusers more credibility than ever?) But...I'm resigned...so, a bit curious what it will be like (as I just can't honestly picture he will like the job--or even like living in Sacramento. I wonder if he's really thought this through?)

Lets see the most of the accusers remain anonymous but Arnold should remember which accusations are true?

Even though some said that at the time they thought it might have been playfulness, and not one of them reported it at the time?

And none of this comes out until the poll numbers have Arnold winning.

 

[Clancie]

David James,

No argument here!

Posted by SRW

Lets see the most of the accusers remain anonymous but Arnold should remember which accusations are true?

SRW,

How much of a memory does it take to say, "I never treat women like that"

As for being anonymous, well, here are a few accounts that weren't:

From "The LA Times"

E. Laine Stockton…had gone to the gym to watch her husband work out….As she sat on an exercise bench, Stockton said, Schwarzenegger walked up behind her, reached under her T-shirt and touched her bare left breast.

"The gym is full of bodybuilders and Arnold comes and he gropes my breast — actually touches my breast with his left hand," she said. She said Schwarzenegger then walked away without saying a word (Her ex-husband independently confirmed this to the Times).

Nancy Tafoya, who was also on the set of "Terminator 2," recalled her own encounter with Schwarzenegger. Tafoya….said she was talking with a group of people when Schwarzenegger came up behind her and yanked her long, black hair.

Her head snapped back, she said. Although she was not injured, Tafoya said she was "shocked." The people around her, she said, started laughing.

Another stuntwoman, Chere Rae Bryson said he used vulgar words for vagina and clitoris during her contact with him during the filming (of “Total Recall”).

"He was crude, boisterous and disparaging around women," she said. "In the makeup room, his language was so bad I turned around and walked out."

Joy Browne, a psychologist whose advice program is syndicated to nearly 200 stations nationwide, described on the radio an encounter with Schwarzenegger that took place during an interview…Schwarzenegger fondled her legs under the table during the interview, she said. Then, she said, he left his Gold American Express card in the studio and insisted that Browne personally return it to his hotel room.

She took her young daughter along to return the credit card. Schwarzenegger, she said, answered the door in tight pants, wearing no shirt. He had champagne. He asked her if her daughter could "take a walk for a while?" She declined.

British television host Anna Richardson….said she was interviewing the actor in December 2000…"He kept looking at my breasts, kept asking if I worked out," she said. "I went to shake his hand and he grabbed me onto his knee and he said, 'Before you go, I want to know if your breasts are real.' "

Richardson, then 29, said she replied that her breasts were real. She said she looked around for help from other people in the room, but nobody came to her assistance. "At that point, he circled my left nipple with his finger and he said, 'Yes, they are real.' " She said he then let her go.

One of the worst things about the Times article to me is that, over and over, it describes Arnold doing this in front of his male pals--men who apparently never contradict this behavior in any way--they just laugh right along with him while he does something degrading.

 

[SRW]

David James,

No argument here!

SRW,

How much of a memory does it take to say, "I never treat women like that"

As for being anonymous, well, here are a few accounts that weren't:






One of the worst things about the Times article to me is that, over and over, it describes Arnold doing this in front of his male pals--men who apparently never contradict this behavior in any way--they just laugh and wink right along with him.

I never heard him say he did not do any of this. In fact he said he acted badly. Did you expect him to answer each allegation as this was still breaking?

 

[patnray]

Maybe the reason he didn't vote in 2/3 of the last 18 elections is that he forgot...

 

[rmacevoy]

Hey Arnold!

What is amazing is the fact that one of these incidents happened in the year 2000 which is not that far back. Not in the body builders distant past, not even before his marriage to Maria. There are his own quotes about getting carried away on the set of T3 with holding the head of a "machine" in the toilet. This guy has a problem that appears to be basic to his character. Sometimes I wonder if his attraction to his wife is that she looks so much like a holocaust victim that he gets some kind of a thrill out of that. I won’t describe the sick image I have in my mind right now.
But maybe he is the perfect Republican candidate. He pretends he had a military service record like Bush and Reagan. He can't remember anything like Reagan and Bush again on Iran Contra. Experimented with substances in his youth like some people we know that wont talk about it. Partied up and drank a lot in his youth like Bush did. And he doesn't have a clue about what to do with the economy of the political unit he is about to take over. Yup that sounds about right.

 

[michaellee]

If anyone had made credible charges of harrassment against Clinton (the only credible relationship I know of were consensual--Lewinsky and Gennifer Flowers), I'd have felt very differently about him.

So "credible charges of harrassment" include those made against Arnold S., documented by none other than the LA Times, by:

E.Laine Stockton, who hangs out at the local gym, bra-less in a t-shirt, watching men work out. And her husband, who musn't have
been working out too hard. Two stuntwomen, a psychologist, and a TV host.

And the accusations are swearing, and making improper sexual advances, and made against a body builder/actor.

And Arnold, without being specific, admits to behaving improperly in the past, and does not lie about it.

But "credible charges of harrassment" DO NOT include those made against Clinton, under oath before a Grand Jury, by:

Paula Jones, whom Clinton settled with for $800,000
Kathleen Willey, volunteer worker for the White House
Juanita Broaddrick, nursing home operator
A long list of many others but you don't care because they are not credible- they don't act for a living or perform dangerous stunts.

And these accusations are groping of genitals, breasts, pleas for oral sex, intimidation, threats of losing jobs, etc., and made against the President of the United States.

And Clinton, being specific, denies all allegations, at least until he is trapped and then must admit he LIED.

So let us recap!

Actor, body-builder swears and hits on women improperly 3-25 years ago, now admits his behavior was bad.

Clancie- Hang the guy, unbelievable behavior, disgusting. How could anyone vote for such a big, bad, evil man? UUGGHHH!

President of the US, gropes, performs, intimidates, denies, admits, lies, can't remember.

Clancie -If credible charges were made against my Billy, I would think differently about him! I can only hope that Congress passes that Amendment eliminating that 8-year presidential term limit thingy. He'll get my vote. Ooohhhh.

 

[Supercharts]

I, for one, am getting really upset at these constant comparisons to our beloved and esteemed Senator - Edward M. Kennedy.
Stop it you people!
Sen. Kennedy does lead a cult of mythology about Camelot and all that stuff so he had to grope, fondle and abuse women all of his life. Sure, he drove his former wife, Joan, into becoming an alcoholic with highly distructive behavior. Sure he also groped and fondled a lot of women. And that Kopechne thingy? But he's a star.
Since his cousin is married to Ahnold this is totally forgivable.
Right now he's behaving and hasn't had a Manhatten for at least a couple of days.

 

[Evolver]

Personally, I don't really give a crap if Arnold groped or not, or even if he once was a hitler fan.
I do find it telling that Repugs are able to look the other way at accusations of one of their own, when they were foaming at the mouth frenzied when all they to come up with against a to-remain-nameless Dumbocrat was that he got very horny.

And no, Ahnold doing it does not excuse you-know-who, it just exposes hypocrites who claim to be appalled by the behavior, but only by one side.

 

[crackmonkey]

It cracks me up that the LA Times rakes through the guy's past, and can only come up with an (apparently false, according to the NY Times) allegation of admiration of Hitler, and of adolescent locker-room behavior. Meanwhile, Gray Davis has been known to physically attack aides when his temper tantrums flare (as they are wont to do). Davis has the groper-in-chief Clinton helping his campaign... this is just too rich.

http://windsofchange.net/archives/004099.html

 

[CFLarsen]

crackmonkey,

I agree. It would be so easy to attack AS for his complete lack of political experience, but people choose to focus on this.

Seems that Comstock and Kafka did not live in vain. Sex sells far better than politics, and is much easier to be appalled at.

 

[davefoc]

I thought of Clancie as soon as I heard about the LA Times stories. At the time of her previous thread on this, I thought it was at least plausible that AS had acted badly, but that comparing his actions to Clinton's was an unjustified leap.

It now appears that AS has behaved more badly than I had thought and I am sorry about it. I think michaellee did a nice job of putting the best spin possible on this comparison and I think that there is substance to what she says.

I had a friend, who often talked in what might be called a vulgar way about the desirability of having sex with just about every woman that was around. I was uncomfortable with his approach. I never said anything to him about it though. I thought there might be some similarity to him and AS on this. He was from Hungary and I thought maybe there was a cultural difference going on there also.

Despite the fact that I think the claims against AS are at least partially true, I am still going to vote for him. My reasons are simple and self serving. I own property in CA, my close relatives all live here, my brother owns a business here and I am not looking forward to a major economic meltdown. I am not sure anything can be done to prevent it, but I think it is approaching certainty that if Davis is left in office it will happen.

 

[Tricky]

Despite the fact that I think the claims against AS are at least partially true, I am still going to vote for him. My reasons are simple and self serving. I own property in CA, my close relatives all live here, my brother owns a business here and I am not looking forward to a major economic meltdown. I am not sure anything can be done to prevent it, but I think it is approaching certainty that if Davis is left in office it will happen.

I'm guessing that if AS gets elected and there is still a major economic meltdown, many will blame Davis anyway. It's a no-lose situation for Arnie.

 

[peptoabysmal]

I'm guessing that if AS gets elected and there is still a major economic meltdown, many will blame Davis anyway. It's a no-lose situation for Arnie.

Well, that's a no-brainer

 

[peptoabysmal]

Maybe the reason he didn't vote in 2/3 of the last 18 elections is that he forgot...

And maybe that just makes him an average Californian. Here, it's gotten so bad that there are a lot of people I know of who just don't care enough and feel so powerless, that they don't bother to vote anymore. The only ones out there voting any more are the left-wing nut cases who are promoting the latest socialist agenda, and a few of us who still care.

 

[Tricky]

The only ones out there voting any more are the left-wing nut cases who are promoting the latest socialist agenda, and a few of us who still care.

Or perhaps the left-wing nut cases who are promoting the latest socialist agenda care more than most.

In any case, those who don't vote because they feel "powerless" deserve whatever they get. They have shown that they waste the small power they have, so why in the world should they be given more?

 

[davefoc]

Here's what Susan Estrich had to say about the last minute articles from the LA Times targeting Schwarzenegger:

http://www.creators.com/opinion_show.cfm?columnsName=ses

I was surprised by her views. It is a rare public political person that talks candidly about the issues. It is rarer still to find one that will take a position unpopular with their party's establishment. Although, I am often not in sync with Susan Estrich's politics I think she is always well spoken and fair (kind of like Clancie). This editorial seems to be an example of both of these attributes.

 

[peptoabysmal]

Or perhaps the left-wing nut cases who are promoting the latest socialist agenda care more than most.

In any case, those who don't vote because they feel "powerless" deserve whatever they get. They have shown that they waste the small power they have, so why in the world should they be given more?

I couldn't agree more. One of those I know who doesn't vote is a co-worker. I admit I sympathize with him somewhat, we both went through some nasty stuff at the hands of the government back in the sixties. But I always tell him this: "If you don't vote, OK, that's a valid political statement. The bean counters will add you to the list of those who don't care enough to vote and that says something about the sad state of politics. However, don't you ever complain to me about who is in office, because you did nothing to prevent him/her from being there."

 

[Clancie]

Here's AS, responding to the women's accusations of improper conduct on Saturday (Thursday was the day he apologized, sort of, for them. But three days later, it's all a bit different....)Schwarzenegger increasingly inventive with the excuses....

...The action star also said that “the environment in today’s politics is totally different on the subject of women, it is much more sensitive today.”

Excuse #1. He behaved like that because it used to be more acceptable. (The '80s? 90's?....Three years ago in 2000?.... )

He added that he will be “extra careful ... even if there is any move from a female on my part.”

Excuse #2: Sounds like implying women make advances to him and when he responds, his attention is misunderstood. (Um...did he even read the article? Its not talking about a little inappropriate language and a "pat" here or there....The Oakland Tribune, withdrawing their endorsement, said some of the actions described constituted assault)

Schwarzenegger said he suspected the governor’s supporters were behind the allegations, but Davis has denied any connection. (The Times adds that they were not contacted by anyone about the story and their reporter was investigating on his own, based on allegations in Premiere, Oui, and elsewhere...)

Excuse #3

Its really Davis's fault.

....In Merced, where he was joined by his wife, Maria Shriver, Schwarzenegger joked briefly about the allegations, hugging a supporter at an In-N-Out burger but then pretending to resist, saying, “Don’t do it! Don’t do it! Otherwise it will be in the paper again.”

Excuse #4: It's all just a big joke!!!


....jerk....
.

 

[Clancie]

davefoc,

That is an interesting article from Susan Estrich! I'm pretty surprised by her viewpoint (wonder if she still has it after Arnold's less-than-contrite-about-it statements on Saturday?)

Its all the more surprising that this is her background:

As a professor of sex discrimination law for the last two decades, and an expert on sexual harassment, I certainly don't condone the unwanted touchings of women that were apparently involved here. Whether they would amount to a case of sexual harassment under the legal standard that requires that harassment be severe and pervasive is far from clear.

Her main defense of him is pretty astonishing....

(1) that the women didn't file charges. Seriously, I'm surprised she thinks that matters? Would it have made the claims more credible? Or would they have been portrayed as bimbos trying to get attention...get money...blah, blah, blah.

Kind of understandable not to sue, isn't it, when you're "a nobody" and someone is a big star with a lot of flunkies willing to defend him and protect their own careers? Maybe Susan Estrich has been out of the courtroom too long, if she ever practiced law--since, come to think of it, I'm actually not sure that she did, because she was also a law prof back in the Dukakis days. It may make a difference, if you're used to handling real-life cases, as opposed to hypothetical classroom discussions of harrassment.

For example, she mentions "sex" but never mentions the issues of power and humiliation, which are much more associated with the kind of behavior described. Few people who have been on the receiving end of these kind of actions would feel it was about sex. I don't know what she's thinking, really.

(2) Her second criticism is that she seems to feel the timing is suspect.

Hmmm...The LA Times says "coincidence, this is when the story was ready," but, well, I have to agree with her that they may not have exactly delayed it, but it is obviously timed to promote bad press for Arnold close to the election.

However.....my question for her would be...."So what?" Even if she's right that it was timed "to get the most attention" (but also to give nearly a week for him to refute it)...well, if its all true, does that really matter?

The truth should be the main thing. If its true (and five more women came forward publicly Friday to tell similar experiences), then its news, and journalists have an obligation to report on it.

And if its true--as it seems to be, with even AS not able to deny it--then her idea that "its all just politics" really isn't fair imo.

Interesting article, dave, though truly a bit shocking!