School shooting in Finland

[sackett]

Face the facts, Timhau. CFL, by a process of pure reason, has demonstrated that you're guilty of this atrocity. You could have known about this crazed teenager and his threats; you have an internet connection, don't you? Knowing about him, you should have cried out to every police station in Finland. After all, how do you know it was only Riverside High that he meant to attack? How could you assume such an outrageously irresponsible thing?

CFL would certainly have prevented this tragedy, if he had known about it, and I'm sure he made every effort. It's not his fault that he doesn't speak Finnish. After all, you both speak English. You could have warned him.

 

[ref]

The video with the school picture was posted 1 day - hours before the massacre. What are the chances that a Finn would pick up that message out of all messages posted on YouTube in one day. Then report it. Then get the appropriate action from the authorities. Then prevent the shooting.

Please cut some slack to everyone. Understand that sometimes there is too little time. And too much to go through.

 

[CFLarsen]

Face the facts, Timhau. CFL, by a process of pure reason, has demonstrated that you're guilty of this atrocity. You could have known about this crazed teenager and his threats; you have an internet connection, don't you? Knowing about him, you should have cried out to every police station in Finland. After all, how do you know it was only Riverside High that he meant to attack? How could you assume such an outrageously irresponsible thing?

CFL would certainly have prevented this tragedy, if he had known about it, and I'm sure he made every effort. It's not his fault that he doesn't speak Finnish. After all, you both speak English. You could have warned him.

I say no such thing.

The video with the school picture was posted 1 day - hours before the massacre. What are the chances that a Finn would pick up that message out of all messages posted on YouTube in one day. Then report it. Then get the appropriate action from the authorities. Then prevent the shooting.

Please cut some slack to everyone. Understand that sometimes there is too little time. And too much to go through.

Why would it have to be a Finn?

 

[sackett]

CFL, I don't think you're a basically bad guy, but sometimes you can be a rather disgusting object.

 

[CFLarsen]

CFL, I don't think you're a basically bad guy, but sometimes you can be a rather disgusting object.

Why? I say none of the things you accuse me of saying.

 

[sackett]

There's a line in Lord of the Rings:

"Let them grieve, for pity's sake!"

 

[CFLarsen]

There's a line in Lord of the Rings:

"Let them grieve, for pity's sake!"

Pseudo-intellectualism, especially when quoting fantasy literature, is no substitute for real argument.

 

[Cheesejoff]

CFLarsen, did anyone actually see the video before the killing started?

 

[CFLarsen]

CFLarsen, did anyone actually see the video before the killing started?

He had plenty of YouTube views on his many YouTube videos.

That's quite...scary.

Don't you think?

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

It is but there are plenty of reasonable reasons it wasn't reported.

Out of all those YouTube views, I would think that all of the very few people who could have seen them would have been total strangers. And more likely than not to be living on the other side of the planet.

If someone knew this kid o knew this school, yes, they would have full reason to be alarmed and a responsibility to do something about it but a total stranger would not even have known where to start had they even decided to do something about it.

 

[bigred]

A quote from the shooter ,courtesy of CNN:
In the rambling text posted on the site, Auvinen said that he is "a cynical existentialist, anti-human humanist, anti-social social-Darwinist, realistic idealist and god-like atheist.

Translation: "I'm a freakin fruitcake."

"I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection."

Then why didn't you fly over to the Middle East? TONS of em there.

ah well, if only we all had such gumption. We could've saved you a few bullets, a lot of people a lot of grief, and 86ed you right off.

What is scary is you see rants like this all the time on the internet.
Granted,90% of them are from 16 year old kids who think that Nihilism is "cool",but that so many think that is troubling.

Actually what's far more troubling is how many people don't get that that is troubling or cause for concern. Our society/societies are so desensitized, brain-dead, and generally loony, that many people see stuff like this and don't blink an eye.


PS: pls do not feed the attention whores.

 

[ref]

He had plenty of YouTube views on his many YouTube videos.

That's quite...scary.

Don't you think?

Views came after the links to the videos were posted by the Finnish media.

 

[stup_id]

I'm really saying this in the most sympathetic way, and trying to not sound completely insensitive, but have you noticed the strong impact his derails will have in Fundies Against Evolution (tm) when talking about the evils of "darwinism"?

He just gave them a perfect example of how "evilution" corrupts our young people's minds and souls...

And a comment aside, again, without trivializing the actions of ths particular guy, let us make some rather divage assumptions, how many people would you think has a mental condition or a mental illness which distorts their social skills? 1 in 1000? (I'm pretty sure the actual number is higher, but i'm playing low here)

How many of those mentally ill do you think are violent/serious threats to society? again.. 1 in 1000... then we can expect 1 in million mentally ill and violent.. my point is.. these acts are ultimately almost unstoppable, you can do your best, but human behaviour is just impossible to predict, specially in this information era... I sincerely hope this is an isolated case and doesn't signify a trend in Finland or anywhere else

 

[timhau]

You accept the risk, then? You are not going to advocate any changes in Finland because of this?

Accept the risk of what? That we'll have another incident like this in the 2020s? Yes. If the authorities have to choose between actions that may prevent, say, 9 singular, non-headline-making deaths per year and actions that may prevent a mass murder of 9 every 20 or so years, I'd rather have them pick the former. And given that we're not a nation of limitless resources, they do have to prioritize their actions.

What I fear more than crazed shooters at this point is politicians rushing head-first into hastily drawn, poorly thought-out legislative action based on a single tragedy.

You are taking on a hell of a responsibility, when you appoint yourself an on-site expert in such crises.

Oh, now you're making sense. Not.

 

[timhau]

Face the facts, Timhau. CFL, by a process of pure reason, has demonstrated that you're guilty of this atrocity. You could have known about this crazed teenager and his threats; you have an internet connection, don't you? Knowing about him, you should have cried out to every police station in Finland. After all, how do you know it was only Riverside High that he meant to attack? How could you assume such an outrageously irresponsible thing?

You're right. I'm going to the police to turn myself in on my lunch break.

 

[Rinky]

You're right. I'm going to the police to turn myself in on my lunch break.

I think I'll come along with you... I wrote about similar things in the beginning of the thread, but was lucky enough to discuss them with Ryokan . Yes, I admit I'm a coward - I ran away when CFL showed up.

 

[timhau]

BTW, I wonder if this tragedy will give rise to conspiracy theories (like, say, the Port Arthur massacre). I really hope not, but...

 

[CFLarsen]

Views came after the links to the videos were posted by the Finnish media.

How do you know that?

Accept the risk of what? That we'll have another incident like this in the 2020s? Yes. If the authorities have to choose between actions that may prevent, say, 9 singular, non-headline-making deaths per year and actions that may prevent a mass murder of 9 every 20 or so years, I'd rather have them pick the former. And given that we're not a nation of limitless resources, they do have to prioritize their actions.

Why have a police at all, then?

What I fear more than crazed shooters at this point is politicians rushing head-first into hastily drawn, poorly thought-out legislative action based on a single tragedy.

It isn't a single tragedy. And you certainly can't ignore the high rate of homicides, e.g. compared to other Scandinavian countries.

And even if it were a single tragedy, why not take action if you found that there was reason to change? You would not have made any changes after the 9-11 attacks?

Oh, now you're making sense. Not.

Think about it: You see a school shooting like this happening, right in front of you. How can you take on the responsibility of judging if it is worth calling the police or not?

 

[ref]

How do you know that?

I saw the reporting. I live here, remember. I saw the links and the interest towards those videos before they were taken down. The links were posted in our main web tabloids and all discussion forums.

Since you said it doesn't matter whether you are a Finn or not, then why didn't YOU report this?

 

[zooterkin]

Think about it: You see a school shooting like this happening, right in front of you. How can you take on the responsibility of judging if it is worth calling the police or not?

Who saw a school shooting happen and didn't report it?